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the state of mame

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SammyWI:


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on January 11, 2011, 08:05:12 pm ---In 720,  The 2nd encoder disc is used to re-calibrate the onscreen character.

.....
 

--- End quote ---

Ow.  Reading drek like that makes my head hurt.  Even if there is a point in there, it's too hard to find under all the self entitlement and arrogance.  At least with that post I can see why people call you names.  You've  earned it.

Hoopz:


--- Quote from: abaraba on January 11, 2011, 08:11:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: Derrick Renaud on January 11, 2011, 04:27:40 pm ---Unfortunately most people just want to get their favorite game to work.  Eg hook up 720 as 2 relative/mouse inputs, which would make it unplayable by 99.99% of Devs/users.  That is not acceptable.

--- End quote ---

One of them is a hack, the other is authentic functionality.
One of them is meant so people can play, the other is historical fact.

Whichever tickles your fanny, just don't say how playing the games is only a side-effect.

But you are wrong, it would not make it unplayable, one *option* does not exclude the other. Have you ever used MAME? Mapping different input devices to control panel layout is already generic and fully functional, i.e. it automatically works for all the games without any changes required, what so ever.


So, you too think emulation/preservation of a PCB is complete/accurate even without reference to authentic controls?



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BTW, there is new thread now to talk about 720 degrees controls, where the main goal I hope would actually be to establish what "accurate preservation" means or should mean, and how to actually read MAME as historical document or technical reference, i.e. you want to repair actual 720 degree PCB, but can't make it work with analog stick.


--- End quote ---
Did you really just ask Derrick if he has ever played Mame?  :laugh2:

You really dont have much background in this hobby, do you?

Donkbaca:

Mmmmm.... Hotdog stew!!!

abaraba:


--- Quote from: Haze ---If you still think you're being lied to about things then I don't know what to say, you're beyond help?

--- End quote ---

I think you are misinterpreting some arbitrary unspoken rules and unnecessary turning them into dogma, instead of to listen users feedback and reconsider.

 

--- Quote ---What's being said, by myself, and now Derrek is that simply leaving it in a state where the project developers can't use it / test it / maintain it isn't acceptable.

--- End quote ---

I'm having hard time believing you two are programmers at all.

I said it's a spinner, you can test it with a MOUSE!



--- Quote ---Nobody is saying keep the changes to yourself.

If you've made the changes, create yourself a website, put the source, and a build that runs 720 up, document however you're meant to wire the thing up to a PC in the first place (which certainly has nothing to do with the way it would wire up to a PCB), and be done with it.

--- End quote ---

So, you are not looking for developers, or is everyone supposed to do the same if they want to contribute? I want to submit changes to mainstream MAME, of course, and I ask you again - do you mind?



--- Quote ---Let's face it.  If somebody has a 720 controller on their cabinet and needs a MAME build to suit it then they're not going to be playing much else with it anyway, nor are they likely to need to upgrade / change it, ever. It's very much the definition of where you'd need a single specialist build for a single specialist purpose.

--- End quote ---

Nonsense! It's a spinner, just like trackball is actually only a mouse from the source code perspective. But, don't you worry, it's all already in MAME from long time ago, all is working and everything is fine.

"REDEFINE INPUT" is at least old feature as computer games, and I have no idea how it can even occur to you a program would require special build to support multiple input devices, or why would they conflict with each other. Nothing even matters if multiple devices get mapped to one input in the same time and you play with all of them.



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Xiaou, please make it clear in what version did 720 controller stop working for you and what version do you want to use it with? ...becasue as far as I see it actually works and it never stopped working. Maybe it's hardware problem with your setup, all these years?

Haze:


--- Quote from: abaraba on January 11, 2011, 08:11:16 pm ---Whichever tickles your fanny, just don't say how playing the games is only a side-effect.

--- End quote ---

playing the games IS only a side-effect.

being able to test them with normal PC hardware without jumping through hoops is hands-down essential.  That means making it easy to use.  (and no, a mouse isn't easy the change you hate so much was almost certainly made because a mouse was too hard to use)

Redefine input, yeah, it's been a feature in software for a while (not always, declining today) and MAME still offers a LOT more flexibility than any other piece of software with that functionality, but you still moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan, and moan.

Go try hooking your 720 controller up to the c64 port, I'm sure it has a redefine keys feature for you.

It's a special use case, how you can claim it's anything else is laughable.  Now you're claiming maybe it did work on some versions, but people said it didn't even then.  Kinda proves there isn't even a proper way to hook the damn thing up to a PC and at that point you're getting even less and less to do with anything emulation related.  You may as well start saying MAME should just require all the components of the PCB to be plugged on to a custom built board slotted directly into a PCI slot to be authentic.

Do I mind you making the project harder for developers to use, and have a detrimental effect on normal MAME use?  Yes, I will ask for any such changes to be rejected.  Period.

Do I mind if you undertake rewriting the entire subsystem, testing it in your own build for a good few months, including extensive public testing, and integrating it at the point where it's determined it will have no detrimental effect to NORMAL use of MAME, and everything you've done is presented in a nice new fully flexible system capable of recognizing and supporting every special case controller under the sun, but which has the current input methods as a default then maintain said system, and deal with bug reports for all the hundreds of wacky controllers you don't have?.  No.

Do I expect you to do the latter? No, because you're just somebody else who wants wants wants and moans moans moans, but isn't willing to actually put in the proper effort, but instead would rather just make cheap changes that put everybody other than your special use case at a disadvantage.  I also doubt you'll bother with the responsibility of maintaining it even if you did code it just based on how absolutely your attitude stinks.  The main version of MAME caters primarily for the developers, and primary userbase, not you.  Your attitude is the complete opposite of every good developer I've ever worked with.

You STILL don't get it, despite being told this by every relevant member of the team.


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