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| ark_ader:
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| Vigo:
--- Quote from: Derrick Renaud on January 11, 2011, 02:35:55 pm ---At the risk of getting dragged into the argument... As Haze says, people are free to modify the MAME code as they see fit. Just because someone wants MAME to fit their needs, does not mean it would meet the needs of the people doing the actual coding. Demanding it meets your needs and not the needs of the coders is bizzare. So to get back to Haze's original topic... If you want it done, recruit someone with interest to code something up cleanly that can be maintained in the baseline code. No current Devs have any interest, and continually berating them is not getting you anywhere. Read this thread, for my thoughts on adding shifter controls: http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=232699&Forum=news&Words=IPT_GEARSHIFT&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=231686&Search=true#Post232699 Or for further fun on where insults and ranting get you: http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=231686&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=234593&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1 Unfortunately for some, I no longer have any interest in coding something I will never use. Too much abuse, no pleasure. People have to remember, MAMEdev are not going to maintain per games hacks, beyond the plenty that are already there that we are slowly working to remove. So a maintainable system needs to be developed. I believe a fake/real control system could be added similar to the system I mentioned for shifters. But someone needs to be interested to do it. I will repeat that NO CURRENT MAMEdev has any interest. So let's see some good clean code from interested people. (Yes that means learning the MAME UI, Input, Input Port and driver code. As a hint, the easiest way would be to create a callback system in the input code, similar to the Input Port code.) D. --- End quote --- Hi Derrick, Going back to the original post on this thread, it sounds like MameDEV is pretty much a bare bones group these days according to Haze, and you need new blood to survive. Would it be fair to sum up your thoughts as: "We don't have the resources to explore these avenues right now, we are simply focusing on we feel is most important right now. We would be happy to integrate this and other project ideas, and if we get the right interested individuals to join and work on this, we would be happy have this integrated into MAME." The reason I ask is that you sound pretty open to the idea of further exploration into certain project changes, but you just don't see it getting done with the way things are right now. Previously in this thread, I was getting a strong vibe that no major changes were welcome, which is why I believe the hornet's nest got so stirred. I'm trying to bring some piece to this thread, mostly because the whole thing is irritating me a lot. This whole thread could have been a softball pitch to do some recruiting to join the MameDEV team, it sucks to see that it probably only chased some potiental developers away. |
| Derrick Renaud:
--- Quote from: Vigo on January 11, 2011, 03:51:55 pm ---Would it be fair to sum up your thoughts as: "We don't have the resources to explore these avenues right now, we are simply focusing on we feel is most important right now. We would be happy to integrate this and other project ideas, and if we get the right interested individuals to join and work on this, we would be happy have this integrated into MAME." --- End quote --- That is pretty much what has always been said. MAMEdev coders work on what they want, when they want to. It is a hobby, not a company. We are lucky that it is as structured as it is. If interested individuals can understand the meaning/purpose of this post and can write code that meets the core coding standards, then it would be seriously looked at. http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=232699&Forum=news&Words=IPT_GEARSHIFT&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=231686&Search=true#Post232699 Unfortunately most people just want to get their favorite game to work. Eg hook up 720 as 2 relative/mouse inputs, which would make it unplayable by 99.99% of Devs/users. That is not acceptable. Heck, we already get complaints about Hard Drivin's shifter which is implemented properly as a joystick. Making shifting unplayable for 99.99% of users. In that case though, the dev's can still test properly, but don't care how easy it is to shift while playing the game. Well, actually, it is not that we don't care, it is that we have no interest/time to code something like I suggest in the link above. |
| jennifer:
Finding a safer, easier way to dump the board would have to the jumping off point. Speaking for myself [and other OEM collectors] send it to who?... and MAYBE get it back, working?.... Unacceptable. |
| Haze:
--- Quote from: abaraba on January 10, 2011, 07:37:09 pm ---Don't be hysterical, this is not MAME forum, so it is logical absurd to suggest anything I say here is even directed at MAME. No demands, I did it myself already. Now, why in the world would I keep these changes to myself while MAME needs fixing and is looking for developers in the same time, what sense does that make? --- End quote --- Nobody is saying keep the changes to yourself. What's being said, by myself, and now Derrek is that simply leaving it in a state where the project developers can't use it / test it / maintain it isn't acceptable. If you've made the changes, create yourself a website, put the source, and a build that runs 720 up, document however you're meant to wire the thing up to a PC in the first place (which certainly has nothing to do with the way it would wire up to a PCB), and be done with it. Let's face it. If somebody has a 720 controller on their cabinet and needs a MAME build to suit it then they're not going to be playing much else with it anyway, nor are they likely to need to upgrade / change it, ever. It's very much the definition of where you'd need a single specialist build for a single specialist purpose. The project developers on the other hand need something easy and accessible all the time. My original post was more about the development of drivers, emulation of hardware and such, which is an area that certainly needs work if some hardware is to be emulated properly at all. This is an area which people, with the required reverse engineering skills can easily contribute too without having a huge impact on the rest of the project. It's incremental work, and on most hardware you can learn as you go, and improve the code as you understand things. It's descended into people talking about major subsystem rewrites which is really of less interest to me. There are also not many devs working on such an area, but it's also an area which has a huge impact across the entire project, so everybody else contributing has to be happy with the changes, and they have to be of a very high standard from day 1 _OR_ it needs to be developed outside the main tree, over a period of time and become proven established code before it's merged in, especially if it's coming from outside the project. My personal view is that rewriting sub-systems might make MAME more appealing to certain groups (and could also annoy other immensely) but ultimately it isn't documenting anything new, or vital. It's not revealing important test cases that we need to run on PCBs while they still work, or helping to improve the actual _emulation_ of anything. MAME is an emulator and my concern was that very little progress was being seen in that core area, the rest (including the UI and input subsystem) is coating, important, but capable of supporting development, and not in need of critical change which could destabilize the project and get in the way of development. Since the post (maybe because it's been the Christmas period) there have actually been quite a lot of very good and worthwhile contributions from some of the older devs, which was good to see. Still no real fresh blood, but at least a couple of problems were solved and the emulation of a number of titles visibly improved. At this point you've got views from Me, Derrek, and by proxy of another poster, Aaron. That's the former lead co-ordinator, a guy who has done a lot of work on the input system recently, and the current lead co-ordinator. If you still think you're being lied to about things then I don't know what to say, you're beyond help? |
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