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the state of mame

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abaraba:


--- Quote from: Haze ---correct, controls are external.  The way external things interact with the PCB emulation is not part of the project goal.

--- End quote ---

Handling input is essential and very much internal part of any game's functionality. Monitor is not part of PCB, so it is fake scan-lines, stretching, blurring and filtering that is EXTERNAL (unnecessary).



--- Quote from: Haze ---There is nothing conflicting about these statements.  Playing the games is a side-effect of correct emulation.  To obtain correct emulation it is necessary to have people using MAME.  It's a CYCLE.

--- End quote ---

"Playing the games" is the same thing as "people using MAME" in the next sentence. It can either be necessity or side-effect, not both, one excludes the other. It is either intentional or coincidental, conflict is in relation to potential legal liability.



--- Quote from: Haze ---You've clearly not played many games, pretty much every PS3 game, and an awful lot of 360 games have severe tearing.  You might not like it, but it's a fact.
GT5 for example has it almost all the time.
http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/granturismo52/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-57294186&pid=941103

--- End quote ---

Other people in that thread, and I, dispute there is any tearing. Simple sync to monitor refresh solves all the tearing problems, so the guy reporting it was possibly having some issues due to video conversion or NTSC/PAL settings, or was simply referring to some other visual artifact as "tearing". -- One of us is not telling the truth, I mean you.

abaraba:


--- Quote from: Haze ---The input layer maps inputs in a way deemed suitable by the developers

The input layer is designed to provide a suitable mapping for the common input devices

--- End quote ---

Says who? Says where? -- I say, in the name of logic, if you can not substitute dead PCB in the original arcade cabinet with MAME machine, then that PCB/game is simply not properly preserved/emulated, yet.


Now, we can substitute many PCBs in many cabinets as it is, but as I understand you could not do it with '720 Degrees' cabinet, and the most important thing you are missing here is - it used to be able to be controlled with an arcade CORRECT controller. Just like with Yie Ar Kung-Fu some baby wanna be developer came along and 'fixed what was not broken'.
 
Do you not hear people are using old MAME? If MAME developers indeed share your views than that explains it all, you guys got very confused with your priorities and off the original tracks, thus you need to be set straight, in the name of preservation, before you have ruined it all.

CheffoJeffo:

 ::)

Please don't use those of us who use an older build as evidence for your tirade ... I expect that the others, like me, recognize that MAME is fluid and that every release changes things, not always in the direction of playability. So, we choose to use versions that work for us rather than whine about how somebody else's priorities are out of line.

If you want to play 720 with an original controller (sad that Xiaou never mentioned the interface method, which would be totally relevant here), then just use an old version. Same with your precious Yie Ar Kung-Fu. It ain't rocket science and is exactly why I use an older build.

If I were a MAMEDev and you told me that my priorities were out of line and that I needed to be set straight before I ruined it all, I would tell you to stick your Yie Ar Kung-Fu correction up your ass ... or ask your friend Xiaou2 to give you a death punch, whichever was more convenient.

Paul Olson:


--- Quote from: abaraba on January 07, 2011, 09:45:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: Haze ---The input layer maps inputs in a way deemed suitable by the developers

The input layer is designed to provide a suitable mapping for the common input devices

--- End quote ---

Says who? Says where? -- I say, in the name of logic, if you can not substitute dead PCB in the original arcade cabinet with MAME machine, then that PCB/game is simply not properly preserved/emulated, yet.


Now, we can substitute many PCBs in many cabinets as it is, but as I understand you could not do it with '720 Degrees' cabinet, and the most important thing you are missing here is - it used to be able to be controlled with an arcade CORRECT controller. Just like with Yie Ar Kung-Fu some baby wanna be developer came along and 'fixed what was not broken'.
 
Do you not hear people are using old MAME? If MAME developers indeed share your views than that explains it all, you guys got very confused with your priorities and off the original tracks, thus you need to be set straight, in the name of preservation, before you have ruined it all.

--- End quote ---

MAME has never been about replacing a PCB in a cabinet. It has never been about running in a MAME cabinet. If I remember right, from the beginning it was always meant to interface with a PC. The MAMEdevs don't have arcade games in their garages like we do. It is a software project to them. I have discussed this with a few of them over the years. What you want, and don't get me wrong I would like it as well, is not what the developers are doing because it is not the goal of the project. MAME is meant to enjoy the games on a PC. People outside the team have produced encoders to allow us to connect most controls to our cabs. There are very few games that don't work as they are. 720 is a pretty bad example of a controller that needs to work in MAME. There are only a handful of people that even have one outside of a dedicated cab (when the repros are released, this may change). When there is enough demand, someone will write a diff to give that functionality, and the handful of people can compile MAME with the diff and happily use their controller. It is not going to be in the core MAME distribution. Period. Although they certainly don't always agree, Aaron and Haze are on the same page on this issue. Aaron is in charge now, and you are not going to change his mind on this. It is not something that you can demand.



abaraba:


--- Quote from: Paul Olson ---MAME has never been about replacing a PCB in a cabinet. It has never been about running in a MAME cabinet. If I remember right, from the beginning it was always meant to interface with a PC.

--- End quote ---

Preserving a game PCB directly implies emulator machine should be adequate substitute for the real PCB and so compatible with the rest of its cabinet, just like restoring/re-making (preserving) an engine of some old car is a failure if at the end it does not fit with the rest of the car.



--- Quote from: Paul Olson ---MAME is meant to enjoy the games on a PC.

--- End quote ---

That is supposed to be a side-effect.



--- Quote from: Paul Olson ---It is not going to be in the core MAME distribution. Period.

--- End quote ---

I promise you it will be *back* in MAME, unless you can convince me why integral functionality of the game PCB should not be properly preserved? You think that would be some sort of hack, or is something not worth documenting?



--- Quote from: Paul Olson ---Aaron is in charge now, and you are not going to change his mind on this. It is not something that you can demand.

--- End quote ---

Demand? It's a mutiny!
Still, Aaron would surely agree with me. Let's ask him?

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