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the state of mame

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Haze:


--- Quote from: danny_galaga on December 30, 2010, 05:05:12 am ---Good point, but if the japanese fan base of Mahjong games really don't care about accurate emulation, why bother doing it in MAME? Seems to me neither East or West would appreciate all that work...

--- End quote ---

You can't really bundle up everybody into the same group.

The Japanese / Asian developers have a different philosophy but the actual work is appreciated greatly by the community as a whole (including PCB owners, who are otherwise hindered by the lack of openness shown)

The benefits beyond that are the ones I've already mentioned?  Like having proper sound in the likes of Cyvern?  You've got Mahjong games to thank for that....

When we get around to adding sound in the fighting game 'Rabbit' the two Mahjong games using the same custom chip will no doubt help there too.

The same can be extended to adult games and others.  If it wasn't for a bootleg Pocket Gal Deluxe showing up (if for example MAME ignored adult games, so buying it was never considered) it's possible that Boogie Wings and Diet Go Go would not yet be working because that seemingly pointless bootleg, and comparisons between the bootleg and the original sets allowed us to figure out the encryption on everything using the DECO102 custom.

The Korean language quiz game running on Raiden 2 hardware has so far been proving to be an essential reference for improving the emulation of Raiden 2, because like many 3rd party games they use the protection in more obvious ways than Seibu, thus allowing it to be figured out more easily, piece by piece.  This might still take years to do (or it could end up being done next year, who knows) but once that's all properly figured out a whole bunch of Seibu games from the early 90s, including the 'classics' Seibu Cup Soccer and Raiden 2 / DX will work.

Even outside of emulation, Toaplan, who produced quite a few popular shooters before everybody went their own ways to form the likes of Cave, started off by bootlegging Mahjong games because they were popular enough that there was a high enough demand even for games which were just bootlegs of existing ones.  They admit this in an interview somewhere.

Don't underestimate the value of 'worthless' games ;-)



Mikezilla:

Its so funny, the only game I have ever even heard of that you mentioned was Raiden 2. And the Mahjong games of course.

Mikezilla:

Well said PBJ. Couldnt agree more.  :cheers:

Haze:


--- Quote from: Mikezilla on December 30, 2010, 02:06:40 pm ---Its so funny, the only game I have ever even heard of that you mentioned was Raiden 2. And the Mahjong games of course.

--- End quote ---

I guess that's just representational of the era of games you experiences.

Cyvern is, like Raiden 2, a shooter, and considered a very good one at that
http://www.shmups.com/reviews/cyvern/index.html
(oh yeah, and I fixed the laying issues he mentions in the review with the help of the Mahjong games on the HW too)

Rabbit was one of EAs few forays into the arcade market, it was also released on the Saturn, and isn't especially bad.

Boogie Wings is one people remember fondly for the 'pick up elephants and swing them around' type gameplay.


Toaplan did Flying Shark (which everybody should know, although it displays Taito because Taito distributed it), and eventually Batsugun which is considered the game from which pretty much all modern 'bullet hell' shooters are derived.

There are all things people repeatedly asked after, and many of them are either only emulated properly due to some mahjong / adult games helping, or, only exist because some Mahjong games supported the company.

Nichibutsu were no different either, they gave you late 80s classics like Terra Cresta and Terra Force, but they made most of their money making Mahjong games!

Your argument that you've never heard of any of the games doesn't really make the point any less valid, I can tell you that emulating and producing Mahjong games has underpinned both the emulation and production of many games which have been enjoyed greatly by audiences outside of Japan.

Anyway, my other points are still valid.  There is a strong shift in the attitudes of up and coming programmers.  None of them seem to do it for enjoyment anymore.  To the very best devs MAMEDev has had it didn't matter to them if they were emulating Galaga or Doki Monkey Panic, the interesting part was figuring things out and getting them running.  The challenge of it all.  The developers of old would be relishing the challenge of getting Cool Riders ( Sega Cool Riders Attract ) running simply because it's such a weird piece of hardware.  (if it looks familiar basically that's because it's a 'sequel' to OutRunners)  The younger generation couldn't care less about the technical challenges of it, or the enjoyment of the coding, and figuring things out properly.  They see programming as a job, nothing more, nothing less.

I missed most of the 80s games, I was too young at the time to play the majority of them, that didn't matter.  I have no particular affection for 99% of the things I've emulated, and the ones I did care about (due to playing home ports mostly) were already emulated, yet I still enjoyed working on the project.  The same could be said for most of the good developers (if you only care about a single game / system contributions tend to be limited, and experience gained more limited)  People who have 'favourite games' and only care about their 'favourite games' were probably never going to make good developers in the first place, you can't be a good MAME developer with such narrow vision.



Bootay:

I would also agree that the vast majority of the games that I grew up with and would want in my cab are already emulated quite well in Mame. (With the exception of Dragons Lair and Space Ace...I have a love for these games even though some would argue their controls are sucky) I could really live without most of the 3D games as I can play the majority of them on the PS1 or PS2. Sure some could argue that I could pick up Namco Museum on PS1 and play Pac-Man too..but my point? I am old, when I think arcade I think Donkey Kong and Pac-Man and heck, even Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct. I don't think Tekken and Soul Calibur. These games I played on the consoles and not so much at the arcades. This is just me though. I understand we have younger people here who would love to get Tekken running arcade perfect with 3D acceleration. But me? I am happy with what has been achieved so far. I have been using Mame since there were only 20 games emulated (middle 1990s I think). I never would have guessed that the project would still be going on today. I am glad that it is though. And I am still waiting for Dragons Lair and Space Ace.  :)

(I know Daphne emulates these games but I prefer 1 emulator instead of multiple ones, plus I believe Daphne only does re-encoded mpegs from the DVDs and I would rather see a straight arcade LD rip like MAME did with Cliff Hanger)

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