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| Yie Ar Kung-Fu has THREE buttons, not TWO!?! |
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| abaraba:
--- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on November 14, 2010, 08:47:47 pm --- "In the arcade" means exactly that ... IN THE ARCADE (3 words can't be THAT confusing to you). There is no document that I can find that indicates that the 3rd button was ever actually used, including being wired at the PCB level. It is not in any pinout, schematic, photograph nor manual for this game. If you can produce such a document, I am happy to retract that statement, but all of my sources show the same thing. --- End quote --- If you can be more specific in relation to this: - "Button" as a 'plastic thing on a control panel' did not exist, but did it exist on a PCB? What do you think is more important for emulation/preservation of the game? MAME is THE document you want to be relying on here, that or the actual PCB, which is also why those two should function the same, so when Luigi "disabled" it, he practically "undocumented" it, and you see the consequences - no one knows about it, Luigi re-wrote the history, so to speak. --- Quote ---If you can't be bothered to find out about Nintendo cabs, their special 100V wiring, the audio circuitry and their lovely monitors, then I can't be bothered to tell you, especially after you have done so much to try to tell me that I am the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. --- End quote --- Please? |
| Gatt:
--- Quote from: abaraba on November 15, 2010, 02:19:02 am --- --- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on November 14, 2010, 08:47:47 pm --- "In the arcade" means exactly that ... IN THE ARCADE (3 words can't be THAT confusing to you). There is no document that I can find that indicates that the 3rd button was ever actually used, including being wired at the PCB level. It is not in any pinout, schematic, photograph nor manual for this game. If you can produce such a document, I am happy to retract that statement, but all of my sources show the same thing. --- End quote --- If you can be more specific in relation to this: - "Button" as a 'plastic thing on a control panel' did not exist, but did it exist on a PCB? What do you think is more important for emulation/preservation of the game? MAME is THE document you want to be relying on here, that or the actual PCB, which is also why those two should function the same, so when Luigi "disabled" it, he practically "undocumented" it, and you see the consequences - no one knows about it, Luigi re-wrote the history, so to speak. --- Quote ---If you can't be bothered to find out about Nintendo cabs, their special 100V wiring, the audio circuitry and their lovely monitors, then I can't be bothered to tell you, especially after you have done so much to try to tell me that I am the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. --- End quote --- Please? --- End quote --- It was a design decision made by the original developers for reasons unknown to us, and will probably remain unknown. The purpose of mame is to document arcade machines. This is a clear edge case, the developers clearly did not intend it's use, and were it not for mame, none of us would know it existed. It wasn't part of the arcade experience. Much the same as Knights of the Old Republic 2 has a vast volume of data on the discs for parts left unfinished, as does Fallout 2. These things occur because design didn't work in the end product for whatever reason. As such, given Mame's intent to document arcade machines for posterity, it does not belong in Mame as a functional option. My understanding is, the proper outlet for this is Misfitmame, where the game was altered by modern developers. So to be honest, I think your best approach would be to politely approach the Misfitmame team and ask them if they'd consider reimplementing the option. |
| abaraba:
--- Quote from: Gatt on November 15, 2010, 03:04:24 am ---It was a design decision made by the original developers for reasons unknown to us, and will probably remain unknown. --- End quote --- Unknown, thanks to Luigi? You are being pessimistic. I am hopping we might eventually find out more about it. Have you tried playing the game with the 3rd button? Once you try it, the game actually appears lacking without it. Without it there is too many random jumps, hoping the opponent would eventually move to where you going to land, but with the 3rd button the game is not really easier, nothing like a hack or cheat, you just have a better control over how far you jump. It simply makes matches shorter, less random and more technical. Try it. --- Quote ---The purpose of mame is to document arcade machines. --- End quote --- This is what everything boils down to. You have to separate "arcade machines/cabinets" from the actual PCBs. What makes a game, "where" is the game, in cabinet or PCB? What do you think is more important for emulation/preservation of the game? --- Quote ---This is a clear edge case, the developers clearly did not intend it's use, and were it not for mame, none of us would know it existed. --- End quote --- We do not really know what *developers* intended. It is unknown and will remain unknown, remember? All I know developers made it pretty good, it makes total sense and fits completely in the gameplay with everything else. --- Quote ---It wasn't part of the arcade experience. --- End quote --- Again, do you think MAME is supposed to emulate some "arcade experience" or actual hardware of actual PCBs? You would like to have "arcade experience" with PC monitor & keyboard? The point is to put the PC in arcade cabinet, Build Your Own Arcade Controls, and then have "arcade experience". |
| abaraba:
--- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on November 14, 2010, 08:47:47 pm ---Because randomly connecting pins on a live PCB is a *great* idea ... :afro: --- End quote --- Ok, I have to admit I base all my conclusions on the fact this functionality was originally in MAME. I assume it was there because it was a part of the original PCB, coded in the game ROMs, and as far as I know how MAME emulates input I also believe there was an actual pin there, but what I do know for sure is that the program did read input for the third button and used it if signal was available. Whether there is an actual electrical lead from some chip leg all the way to the connector is still the question, but I certainly hope some MAME developer did not hack all that just for fun to be there to start with, and so that this functionality can indeed be found, and used somehow, on the actual PCB. |
| wweumina:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 07:06:29 pm --- If programming were as easy as you say, then this entire forum would have long since put the needed stuff into mame. The rates for programming saleries would drop by 80%, and much more. Its easy for you, because you have a brain that works and thinks a certain way. And because of that, for you... it seems like everyone should find it exactly as easy as you do. You simply cant see the logic in it, because you dont know what its like to have Mush inside your head. Your mind is like Arnorld Schwarzenegger lifting up a tree.. and not understanding why everyone cant lift up a tree. Its Easy Man! Watch... Grunt. --- End quote --- Programming can be learnt, it just might take some people longer than others. You might ask the relevance of this, but alot of this will come down to time. I'm a programmer and I can tell you exactly how long I have spent helping out with MAME. None. I have other projects and a life both of which get in the way. No one is getting paid for MAME so ultimately it will all come down to how long people want to spend on it. A change you want might take someone 20 minutes, it might take you 5 years. If you want it badly enough, you'll spend the 5 years. If they want it badly enough, they'll spend the 20 minutes. I don't think you have the right to criticize the people who won't spend 20 minutes doing what you want. Feel free to suggest, but I think the ciriticsm is going too far. |
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