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| Yie Ar Kung-Fu has THREE buttons, not TWO!?! |
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| Xiaou2:
As for Derrick, he started to work on controller inputs long ago and gave up. He only said that he was still interested because he was angered at my commentary. Yet the real reasons were more as Ive written. The entire input system is a mess... and nobody wants to clean it up. It had Nothing to do with me and my comments... so dont even try to blame that crap on me. To do so is purely pathetic. --- Quote ---The designers of the games would care most about them playable in some form, not the cabinets, which are as much as anything a marketing gimmick. --- End quote --- You are wrong. There are very good reasons why certain controllers were designed and built for games. In fact, the entire gameplay is carefully balanced with those specific controllers as well... so any small deviation will create a complete imbalance in difficulty and intended experience. Unlike todays Craptastic games, where its more like an animated movie than an actual skilled game... I can understand why you would think such things. Playing a FPS has 1/1000th of the intensity of a 5 minute round of robotron on any level higher than 6. Each and every split second, you are in danger. There is no place to hide. No storyline cutsceens. Its life and death in every split second of time. Games like Race Drivin were ALL about the controls. The graphics were crap... but the controls felt so realistic, that it made the entire experience unlike anything out there. Which is exactly why it was so successful. FYI - Race Drivn / Hard Drivin has a 6 turn wheel w/ force feedback motor big & strong enough to power a clothing dryer. Its gas pedal is spring based, while its brake uses a rubber compression for a more realistic feel. Its shifter is the most realistic arcade shifter ever produced. The games controls so good... even some DMV offices were developing it into a training device. The controls were no Gimmick. They are an integral part of the game, its balance, its feel. |
| Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 05:48:48 pm ---As for Derrick, he started to work on controller inputs long ago and gave up. He only said that he was still interested because he was angered at my commentary. Yet the real reasons were more as Ive written. The entire input system is a mess... and nobody wants to clean it up. It had Nothing to do with me and my comments... so dont even try to blame that crap on me. To do so is purely pathetic. --- Quote ---The designers of the games would care most about them playable in some form, not the cabinets, which are as much as anything a marketing gimmick. --- End quote --- You are wrong. There are very good reasons why certain controllers were designed and built for games. In fact, the entire gameplay is carefully balanced with those specific controllers as well... so any small deviation will create a complete imbalance in difficulty and intended experience. Unlike todays Craptastic games, where its more like an animated movie than an actual skilled game... I can understand why you would think such things. Playing a FPS has 1/1000th of the intensity of a 5 minute round of robotron on any level higher than 6. Each and every split second, you are in danger. There is no place to hide. No storyline cutsceens. Its life and death in every split second of time. Games like Race Drivin were ALL about the controls. The graphics were crap... but the controls felt so realistic, that it made the entire experience unlike anything out there. Which is exactly why it was so successful. FYI - Race Drivn / Hard Drivin has a 6 turn wheel w/ force feedback motor big & strong enough to power a clothing dryer. Its gas pedal is spring based, while its brake uses a rubber compression for a more realistic feel. Its shifter is the most realistic arcade shifter ever produced. The games controls so good... even some DMV offices were developing it into a training device. The controls were no Gimmick. They are an integral part of the game, its balance, its feel. --- End quote --- and again, if you want one, you buy and use the original cabinet. Not MAME. MAME will never replicate the experience of the full custom built cabinet. It is not intended or designed to do so, it never will be, such is outside the scope of the project, as I keep telling you. Mame emulates the actual PCBs and attempts to provide a convenient input system for PC use. I'm surprised you're not demanding MAME stick with 2 buttons on Yiear, it's what the designers wanted, clearly. Allowing 3 buttons is a hack which ruins the experience that was given on a genuine cabinet by destroying the difficulty and ability to eat your money, which is all arcade games were designed for anyway. and yes, you royally pissed off Derrick, which should have been clear from the responses you got. The existing input system is not a mess, no matter how many times you repeat that it is. It works well for the majority of cases, and while there are some where some more flexibility would help, and a little inconsistency in places actual problems are few and far between. In the majority of cases custom controls and custom cabinets were a gimmick, something that could be done, but in realty wasn't necessary, just presented something that looked a bit different to the player. Nobody cares what you think, and no amount of repeating that will change what people think, or the scope of the project which you have no say in anyway. If you are not happy, come up with your own project, or find a new team who will do so, and boss them around. It's that simple. MAME will not be doing what you want, ever. It doesn't help the project. I strongly suggest you read the bsnes link I posted as a prime example of what happens if developers try to bend over the meet the needs of a minority of over-vocal users. |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---I don't care if you find it easier to play like that, it's entirely subjective. --- End quote --- Its not easier for me. Its easier for ANYONE. That is the point. The Wico 8ways have a certain designed mechanical advantage to any other type of controller. The entire game developement and game balancing was done on Wico 8way leafs, and any deviation from that is not representing the game as was designed. In fact, the original game developer has Refused to play his own creation on a machine that didnt have the correct controls installed. That tells you something right there. Just because you do not understand the Value of a REAL game, and put out Crappy piles every day of your worthless coding life... does not mean that everyone is on the same level as you. --- Quote ---Mame emulates the actual PCBs --- End quote --- We can re-roll this into "depending on its choice of what is worthwhile or not", as proven by the previously argued points. --- Quote ---and yes, you royally pissed off Derrick, which should have been clear from the responses you got. --- End quote --- Sure I did. But that does not change the facts. He gave up the control systems long before I made any of my opinions verbal. |
| Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 06:02:14 pm --- --- Quote ---I don't care if you find it easier to play like that, it's entirely subjective. --- End quote --- Its not easier for me. Its easier for ANYONE. That is the point. The Wico 8ways have a certain designed mechanical advantage to any other type of controller. The entire game developement and game balancing was done on Wico 8way leafs, and any deviation from that is not representing the game as was designed. In fact, the original game developer has Refused to play his own creation on a machine that didnt have the correct controls installed. That tells you something right there. --- End quote --- It's not easier for me. Give me 2 full sized joysticks and my head goes 'wtf, can't play this' and my co-ordination and concentration go all over the place. I can't *play* Robotron like that, I die on the first 2 waves, on the Analog sticks I can play it for ages. For me the shorter distance between my hands, and use of my thumbs is vital. As I said, it's subjective. Trying to argue it isn't is a ridiculous as every single other one of your arguments. As for Derrek, he's given up knowing that whatever he does he will be bitched at, you are a prime example of why that will happen, because NOTHING is good enough for you. That's why the project has it's own goals, which you thankfully have nothing to do with. Again, you continue to directly insult my ability based on your own personal opinions. I hereby simply request that saint ban you, and your constant trolling from these forums. I can't remember the last time you made a worthwhile contribution here, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. |
| Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---I'm surprised you're not demanding MAME stick with 2 buttons on Yiear, it's what the designers wanted, clearly. Allowing 3 buttons is a hack which ruins the experience that was given on a genuine cabinet by destroying the difficulty and ability to eat your money, which is all arcade games were designed for anyway. --- End quote --- I said I wasnt a big fan of it, BUT, because its part of the games history, it Should be preserved and be able to be experienced. I have a movie made by Wierd Al called UHF. I bought the DVD, and the DVD has clips of footage that never made it into the movie. I wanted to see the stuff that was made in the development process, so I watched it all. Its was horrendous... And god it was the right call to leave that stuff out... But, it was part of the history of the movie, and Im glad that someone realized that its better to preserve history, than to toss it out. As Ive said, to differentiate it from the original methods of controls, an option could be added to the cheat engine to enable it. Or, some other form of switch. And again, this is far from the most important thing needed or wanted in mame... but it serves as an example of the logic and reasoning that needs to change. |
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