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| Haze:
--- Quote from: SavannahLion on November 14, 2010, 04:09:44 pm --- --- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on November 14, 2010, 02:01:21 pm --- --- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 01:30:50 pm --- If i had only had a programmers brain --- End quote --- --- End quote --- It's about two posts after this that I got tired of reading this. Once Saint closes the thread, I'll be more than happy to read the Cliff Notes. --- Quote from: Haze on November 14, 2010, 09:02:50 am ---...the dev team which is as good as dead anyway. --- End quote --- Am I the only one that's mildly concerned about this? --- End quote --- No, it concerns me too, the lack of motivation to make even simple changes is rather disturbing, I'm talking about changes which would take any dev, even ones with no programming ability 5 minutes at most. It's been coming for a while, most of the recent changes and fixes to MAME in the last couple of builds have come from MESS, and it's looking fairly likely that the teams / projects will be fully merged at some point in the not so distant future, but even then it remains to be seen if people will be motivated to work on MAME. There isn't any lack of work to be done, quite a lot of systems still need extensive work (for ones sharing hardware with consoles the mentioned merge should help) but even then there are arcade systems badly in need of attention which aren't getting touched at all. This is why moaning and complaints about inputs are really a minor concern. I'd rather see something running properly in terms of CPU / Graphics / Sound but with dodgy inputs than not running at all, or with severe glitches still. As for Xiaou2, I give up, he won't accept reason or logic, or see why priorities are the way they are. He appears to be living in his own little fantasy world and accept that his requests are beyond what the development team can offer, or feel the need to offer, or consider to actually improve or help the emulation in any way, shape or form. It's not happening dude, get over it, the level of preservation offered by MAME has been chosen and set in stone for a long time, if your expectations are higher that's your own issue to be dealing with. Other people might consider realistic 3d models of the cabinets just as important, whereas there are members of the dev team that think even the artwork system should be ripped out and MAME remain nothing but an emulation engine to interact with other software and not handle any kind of inputs / outputs directly *at all*. Some think that no bootlegs should be supported, others think that all usermade hacks should be supported in addition to real arcade ones. Can't please everybody. My personal opinion is that MAME should emulate what it can, and steps we can do to improve the actual emulation of the system hardware should be done. I don't give a damn about the inputs being accurate to the original, nor some of the flexibility being offered. I want something that just works, for me, and other developers, and that's my goal. That's why I'm looking forward to the MESS merging in, because it means I'll be able to improve the actual emulation code, and benefit both arcade and console emulation as a result. Realistic goals, and a workable plan. |
| Xiaou2:
Of course it doesnt mean anything to you, because again... you are clueless about games. I could take you to places that have correct controlled games, and teach you how to actually play and enjoy the games properly... and your entire perspective would change. However, that isnt going to be the case.. because you are pathetically blind in your youthful perspectives, and subpar understandings. SavannahLion, dont take Haze's comments too serious. Hes been booted off the Team for whatever reasons... and there is no real telling what happens behind the scenes -vs- what Haze wants to present with his colored visions. |
| Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 04:35:44 pm ---Of course it doesnt mean anything to you, because again... you are clueless about games. I could take you to places that have correct controlled games, and teach you how to actually play and enjoy the games properly... and your entire perspective would change. However, that isnt going to be the case.. because you are pathetically blind in your youthful perspectives, and subpar understandings. SavannahLion, dont take Haze's comments too serious. Hes been booted off the Team for whatever reasons... and there is no real telling what happens behind the scenes -vs- what Haze wants to present with his colored visions. --- End quote --- You were told the same things on Mameworld by other devs who you also tried to bully into doing exactly what you want with your demands and grossly inaccurate assumptions about the scope and difficulty of some of your propositions. You near enough pissed off the only current dev who might be able to do something about your issues to the point where he just decided to go and work on more discrete sound simulations instead (he happens to be pretty much the only dev who understands those too, and I'm kinda glad he's working on them, because it is more important to get those right while the boards work) I work in games, I understand games, and I understand what's important. I work in software development, I understand what's important there too. Robotron seems perfectly playable on a dualshock to me, no less so than an actual cabinet I've played it on. Missile Command is fine with a mouse. Sinistar and 720 are perfectly playable with an analog stick. The designers of the games would care most about them playable in some form, not the cabinets, which are as much as anything a marketing gimmick. Support is far from mission critical. The input system in MAME could be rewritten at any time in the next 20 years if somebody really wanted to, it's a minor, minor concern compared to getting the things up and running in the first place. Getting them running is the hard part, that's what I consider preservation. Right now, Raiden 2, for example, doesn't run properly at all. I think getting it running, even if MAME only supported keyboard as an input, not even joystick, is far more important than not having it run at all as far as preservation is concerned. Right now it could easily be 'lost' because game-software-critical components of the emulation are severely lacking. The interests of those involved in MAME pretty much begins and ends with the things running properly on a current PC system with standard PC hardware. Any level of preservation beyond that is outside the scope of the project. You can continue to insult me all you want, but you appear to be the one in the minority here, even on a site that specializes in arcade controls. |
| Xiaou2:
Actually, you dont understand... which is why there is any debate at all. Id stomp all over you in robotron with a set of real wico 8ways, and thats giving you a year to practice, and me not playing in over 10 years. There is a very specific reason for this, and its all mechanical. Something that You do not work it, and are not experienced with in the least. And with correct Wico leafs, your playtime and scores will be 10x that of a gamepad with any level of practice. Currently, you have Nood status, meaning, Its doubtful you make it past level 5 let alone to level 12... In fact, I had to FORCE my 5yr old younger friend to play Robotron. He Hated the crappy graphics, and was extremely against it, as it was Older than Dirt to him. After only 15 minutes, he was hooked... and laughing like a giddy schoolgirl. Me and him alternated... and after a few bouts over the next few weekends, he got to level 35... which is no joke on that game. Years later, he went to play it on his xbox 360 with the xbox controllers... and completely sucked. Couldnt get past level 5. He adomently cursed at how awful the controller were for the game, and how much better the real controller were. He only played about 5 times, and he gave up. Where as when we played the real machine... we were on it for like +4hrs at a time. |
| Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 05:35:23 pm ---Actually, you dont understand... which is why there is any debate at all. Id stomp all over you in robotron with a set of real wico 8ways, and thats giving you a year to practice, and me not playing in over 10 years. There is a very specific reason for this, and its all mechanical. Something that You do not work it, and are not experienced with in the least. And with correct Wico leafs, your playtime and scores will be 10x that of a gamepad with any level of practice. Currently, you have Nood status, meaning, Its doubtful you make it past level 5 let alone to level 12... In fact, I had to FORCE my 5yr old younger friend to play Robotron. He Hated the crappy graphics, and was extremely against it, as it was Older than Dirt to him. After only 15 minutes, he was hooked... and laughing like a giddy schoolgirl. Me and him alternated... and after a few bouts over the next few weekends, he got to level 35... which is no joke on that game. Years later, he went to play it on his xbox 360 with the xbox controllers... and completely sucked. Couldnt get past level 5. He adomently cursed at how awful the controller were for the game, and how much better the real controller were. He only played about 5 times, and he gave up. Where as when we played the real machine... we were on it for like +4hrs at a time. --- End quote --- .. and, I don't especially care? For my needs, and the goals of the project, the existing solution, and allowing the use of conventional controllers is 100% adequate. I don't care if you find it easier to play with real sticks, it's _entirely_ subjective and well outside the goals of the project. |
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