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Yie Ar Kung-Fu has THREE buttons, not TWO!?!
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Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---Then you can't really complain about things can you?  You say you have limitations, but refuse to acknowledge the limitations of the current dev team, but instead would rather insult them for it?
--- End quote ---
 

 You said you cant, because you have no interest.. Not because you didnt have the technical ability.

 If you asked me to draw a picture, and I said I cant draw people.. I only draw cars.  Then that would be the similar.  However, in my case, I would have the drive to try to preserve - so would make that attempts to draw something I was not used to drawing.  Someone should do it, and if not me, then who else?

 To me, the insult has been that people dont care about the games they try to preserve.  And so yeah, I get offensive about it.  Especially when I get replies like "Learn to Program".


--- Quote ---I have no reason to look into making them apart from you demanding I do so.
--- End quote ---

 The reason should be for preserving games history in complete.  It should have no bearing on what I or anyone else wants...  But what Should be.  In fact, both the items Im talking about are least of what Id like to see in mame.  Its just a principle of preservation efforts, and how things are failing.


--- Quote ---I could just as easily say your efforts to learn to program were half-ass.
--- End quote ---

- You could, but then you would have to run test on my brain, and eventually you would find out that I was in fact crippled compared to your own brain.  Like comparing a man who runs marathons, to a man missing a leg.  Yeah, he can hobble/slide, but it would take him 5 years to get to the finish line "IF" he devoted every resource available for all that time to that particular goal.

 To call that man half-assed because he couldnt compare is completely unfair in an argument... and is downright poor in taste and in the nature of realism.

 I understand logic and structure... but I cant talk computer language.  I cant do simple math without counting on my fingers. I have horrible memory, and am a very slow learner.  These things I have been born with, and Ive fought 10x as hard in my life to do the same things that others like yourself can do with almost no effort at all.


--- Quote ---I told you, if you want the changes made that you suggest, you need a NEW dev team.  Nicola took the project as far as he could.  I took the project as far as I could, now Aaron has taken it as far as he can IMHO.
--- End quote ---

 You make assumptions for Aaron now?   Either way, you could be right.  But, that does not mean I, and others dont have the right to be upset about it.  Its the simple reality of it all.


--- Quote ---The fact that you're willing to write off the tremendous amount of work that has gone into MAME as half-ass and sit here calling myself and other developers who have dedicated years of our free time to working on it 'blind'
--- End quote ---

 Dont Twist my words.  I said you were blind for thinking a legless man could run a marathon.  If you want to win an argument, then be honest.  If you dont, you only look like a tool and a fool.

 Nobody denies the vast great work done by the devs, including you.  They have accomplished many great things that everyone loves and appreciates.  However, that does not change the big picture.  That things that need preserving are being lost every day due to problems in the ways things are being handled.
Haze:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 02:16:42 pm ---
--- Quote ---Then you can't really complain about things can you?  You say you have limitations, but refuse to acknowledge the limitations of the current dev team, but instead would rather insult them for it?
--- End quote ---
 

 You said you cant, because you have no interest.. Not because you didnt have the technical ability.

 If you asked me to draw a picture, and I said I cant draw people.. I only draw cars.  Then that would be the similar.  However, in my case, I would have the drive to try to preserve - so would make that attempts to draw something I was not used to drawing.  Someone should do it, and if not me, then who else?

 To me, the insult has been that people dont care about the games they try to preserve.  And so yeah, I get offensive about it.  Especially when I get replies like "Learn to Program".

--- End quote ---

I'm one person, I have no interest in learning how these sub-systems work in MAME.  I care about performing my role, which does not include that.  Again, you seem to be trying to demand I work on areas of the code I've never had any interest in working on, am completely unfamiliar with, and would probably do a shoddy job of updating.

You will always get the reply 'Learn to Program' because that's exactly what everybody else involved with the project has had to do, and is effectively what you're telling me to do.  Just because I can 'program' doesn't mean I have any idea how some parts of MAME work.

I care about figuring out how things work, how CPUs are hooked up, how graphics are generated, and what the game code expects.  This is what I'm good at.  The project is meant to be a TEAM effort, simply demanding that people work on everything is completely unreasonable.  This is no different to your argument about marathons.

I'm playing my role in the preservation of these things.  You're doing.... nothing?  but are somehow trying to suggest that I'm not a good enough job


Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---As for lightguns? Do they work?  The amount of bitching that occurs about them on a regular basis makes me think otherwise, and given only a fraction of the userbase even use them, it makes me think they probably aren't really reliable.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote --- The MAME input system is fine for 99.99%
--- End quote ---

 Firstly, lightgun games are what Saved the arcades from going bankrupt.  They consistently got a lot of gameplay.  They also were on many consoles.  How many people didnt have an NES gun and play Duckhunt?  How many people have never played Area 51 in the arcades? 

 DO you REALLY think that people would be happy if there was not an option for real lightgun interfaces?  You make the ASSumption, that just because you dont have, like or want a lightgun... that 99% of the game playing world does not care about them too.   Its completely off-base.

 The simple fact is that the majority of people who use mame feel like they are stepping on eggshells, and dont bother voicing their opinions.


 The main problem with lightguns has been in the hardware.  The manufacturers have put out horrible quality initially (actlabs).  Yet the LCDTopguns do work with very good accuracy (tho, they require you to stand much further away from the screen than you may like).  There are other lightgun options as well, that work similarly to the Wii... tho that is not my cup of tea, because its not arcade correct.

 Barring lightguns, there are many people who use spinners and trackballs, and all other sorts of controllers.  Well more than you think.  In fact, search this site and see how many control panels have more than just the standard happs 8way.  (And this site isnt even half of whats out there... nor are most of the projects people do on this site)

 AND, even if people dont have the controller today... they may Intend to have one in the future... IF mame supports it, and If it is available to be purchased.
Haze:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 14, 2010, 02:33:21 pm ---
--- Quote ---As for lightguns? Do they work?  The amount of bitching that occurs about them on a regular basis makes me think otherwise, and given only a fraction of the userbase even use them, it makes me think they probably aren't really reliable.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote --- The MAME input system is fine for 99.99%
--- End quote ---

 Firstly, lightgun games are what Saved the arcades from going bankrupt.  They consistently got a lot of gameplay.  They also were on many consoles.  How many people didnt have an NES gun and play Duckhunt?  How many people have never played Area 51 in the arcades?  

 DO you REALLY think that people would be happy if there was not an option for real lightgun interfaces?  You make the ASSumption, that just because you dont have, like or want a lightgun... that 99% of the game playing world does not care about them too.   Its completely off-base.

 The simple fact is that the majority of people who use mame feel like they are stepping on eggshells, and dont bother voicing their opinions.


 The main problem with lightguns has been in the hardware.  The manufacturers have put out horrible quality initially (actlabs).  Yet the LCDTopguns do work with very good accuracy (tho, they require you to stand much further away from the screen than you may like).  There are other lightgun options as well, that work similarly to the Wii... tho that is not my cup of tea, because its not arcade correct.

 Barring lightguns, there are many people who use spinners and trackballs, and all other sorts of controllers.  Well more than you think.  In fact, search this site and see how many control panels have more than just the standard happs 8way.  (And this site isnt even half of whats out there... nor are most of the projects people do on this site)

 AND, even if people dont have the controller today... they may Intend to have one in the future... IF mame supports it, and If it is available to be purchased.


--- End quote ---

so we're back to this ASSumption thing... I'm really surprised saint hasn't just banned you yet.  You've been presented with reasonable arguments, and resorted to just plain insults.

I know of precisely 0 people who use lightguns with MAME in person, as opposed to countless who use it with a keyboard and mouse.  I don't believe any of the active dev team own any guns at all.  This isn't an assumption.

You're right, the hardware has been horrible, and people have been trying to use guns on games which aren't even suitable for guns.  Most arcade 'gun' games of the 90s aren't gun games at all.  The end result of trying to support them is endless bitching because it doesn't work properly with crap hardware (or can't work, because they're not gun games), which has the end result of making the people involved wish they hadn't bothered at all.

Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---The project is meant to be a TEAM effort, simply demanding that people work on everything is completely unreasonable
--- End quote ---

 Firstly, Im not Demanding anything.  Im simply Voicing my opinions about the end results of the effort in preservation.

 As you say, its a Team effort... and if that means that nobody on the team is working on a certain area... either you all should take parts of that work and divy it up... or that area isnt going to improve.   And if that is the case... Which it is... then you cant expect people to be happy with the end result... and will have opinions similar or exactly like the ones I post... even if they are not voiced.


--- Quote ---I know of precisely 0 people who use lightguns with MAME in person, as opposed to countless who use it with a keyboard and mouse.  This isn't an assumption.
--- End quote ---

 And how many people do you know?  heh    Now you know me, and guess what? I have 2 LCDTopguns, (and 2 crappy actlabs guns I wish Id never bought).  A lot of people who would like guns, dont have the money right away... or are not even sure they work well with mame.  That does not mean that people Like to play gun games with a mouse.  In fact, try playing pointblank with a mouse, and see how pathetic you do.  You wont get Anywhere in that game with a mouse... so its Pointless to even try playing it.  T2 is the only game you could justify playing with a mouse, because it was a pot based game... and where extreme accuracy & speed are not a necessity.

 AND, if mame didnt put all its 'optional' inputs into the 'main input' windows, people would realize that T2 wasnt a lighgun game.  And, if people are told that T2 shouldnt be controlled with a lightgun, and if they wanted that they should 'learn how to program'... that would be the end of it right?  :P   I guess mame team just got tired of the emails?

 And btw - I also own T2 guns, and just about every other controller type that has ever been conceived of.  Im also not the only one.
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