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Yie Ar Kung-Fu has THREE buttons, not TWO!?!
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Erik:

--- Quote from: abaraba on November 16, 2010, 03:04:33 am ---....

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And with that post we have now reached the point where more time has been spent reading and debating this topic than has ever been (or will be) spent playing the mediocre-at-best Yie Ar Kung Fu  :hissy
CheffoJeffo:
Most relevant post in the thread.

 :cheers:
yotsuya:
Actually, because of this thread I went and played both Yie Ar AND Robotron and got my highest scores ever on both!  :laugh2:
Haze:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on November 16, 2010, 01:42:00 am ---
--- Quote ---Xiaou2: Your grievances are many fold but basically the same as abaraba in that MAME doesn't represent what you believe it should, then basically saying that if it weren't for the WICO joystick Robotron wouldn't even have been made because the designers couldn't/wouldn't have made it with any other controller. You have this attitude with other games aswell.
--- End quote ---

 No.

 Im saying that the gameplay was designed and balanced with these sticks.  If they had used other less sensitive controllers... they would have had to reduce the games difficulty by half of its current intensity.  (Which is pretty much how all games made today are... Easy, boring, Snorefests, which take no skill to make progress in)

 However, if they had used a typical happs comp... the square restriction would have caused carnage to the sticks.  They wouldnt have lasted 2 weeks in an arcade setting.


--- Quote --- you can say what you want, I'm telling you, at no point when playing Robotron with the controller available to me have I felt that the controller is to blame for any deaths.  The game is reading the inputs at 1/60th of a second at best, less when it slows down due to excessive activity, my actual reactions I would stipulate are slower than that, but once I actually move my thumb / hand the difference is LESS than the 1/60th of a second regardless of controller used.

for this simple reason, it doesn't matter.  The controller I'm most comfortable with is the best controller for the game.  your argument is basically the 'monster cables' argument.  Any benefit you're seeing from the original controls is either mental conditioning, or a placebo effect.  There is no real technical advantage.
--- End quote ---

 I really cant believe how much of a lack of logic you have.

 If you have one guy run 50 meters to the left, then 50 to the right... He wont be able to beat the guy who runs 10 meters to the left, and 10 to the right.

 If you glue a stick to your analog, and tilt it as far as it goes in each direction... then note the distance between the angles, you will see exactly how far you have to move relative to a wico.  The Wico angles will be 1/5th or less the distance.

 Monster Cables have Zero benefit at all for the signal that they carry.  However, there IS a HUGE Mechanical advantage that can easily be measured and felt, with wico leafs.  This isnt some small difference, its a Huge one.

 A simple experiment can be done. Write a test program that measures the time it takes to move from left to right for exactly 60 seconds.  Anyone with a wico leaf hooked up will beat your time by more than half.

 For one, the thumb is a clumsy slow digit.  Moving laterally back and forth accurately and fast, in the air alone, is horrible.  (Try brushing your teeth with the movement of your thumb, but not moving the arm/wrist)   Then, take your fist in shake it laterally as fast as possible.  Its a piece of cake.  Its accurate, its fast, its no fatiguing.  Its called Physics.

 The rest boils down to more resistance (friction), longer distance to travel, and all the other things mentioned.

 If your too simple minded to understand, and you dont believe me, ask some highly paid egg head engineers.  They will give it to you straight up.  

 And, who do you think designs these controllers?  Some idiot with a block of wood and a carving knife?!  These are highly precise and severely complex things that only specialist can handle.  Especially considering that these things had to be built to withstand major abuses and extreme wear.

 This is the very simplest of physics.  Even grade schoolers should be able to understand this stuff.


--- End quote ---

I disagree with you entirely, I'm saying the actual difference presented is marginal, the bottleneck of playing the game IS NOT IN THE CONTROLLER, even if you can prove by some method of physics that one is 'better' than the other.

For _playing_ the game IT ISN'T

I'll restate, I've NEVER, not even once died when playing robotron due to a failure or limitation of the controller I'm using.

That is the absolute and only proof you need that giving me a 'better' controller (as you define it) would make absolutely no difference to my ability to play the game, and therefore to me, due to the added difficult in using your so called 'better' controller, it is not a better controller at all.  Any kind of mechanical advantage makes absolutely no difference when the bottleneck of playing the game is not in the mechanics.

No amount of physics and 'proof' can change these very, very simple facts.

You seem highly offended that I prefer playing it with a dualshock, and I do, I'm better at it that way, I'll always be better at it that way.  To me, that's how it was meant to be played and is the only way I can fully enjoy the game.  I wish they'd put them in the cabs back then instead.

You can't lecture me on how some other controller is better, when the controller I'm using has never been the problem in the first place, because I will just laugh at you, like I like at people who try to sell me things I don't need by claiming that they're better, when really, they're just more expensive / less practical for me / I won't need half the features.  We are not talking 50 meters vs 10 meters, we're talking tiny distances vs. other tiny distances, which relative to everything else make no difference to me playing the game.  If I tell you to run 0.000001cm that way, and some other guy to run 0.000200cm the other way, you're not going to notice even if one is 200 times further.

Maybe you don't like me stating this, because it clearly shows that the entire argument IS subjective.  You prefer real sticks and find they're better, I prefer the analog sticks and find they're better.  This conflict of opinion seems to break you?  In terms of playing the games, that's the reality of the situation, different people will find different things better. I prefer to use my thumbs, a twitch of my thumb is an easier and more precise movement than moving my whole hands.  You are not me, you cannot tell me what is best for me.

Just admit it's subjective and be done with it.
Xiaou2:
But you are wrong.

 Its not fractional as in "0.000200cm"

Its about a FULL CENTIMETER OF DIFFERENCE!!! ,if not a little more.
In the gameing world, a full centemeter of play is a huge problem on fast moving games!

 If your brake pedal for your car required twice the distance to activate... then if some little kid suddenly bolted right in front of you... you wouldnt be able to stop in the same time as if your brakes had 1/2 that travel.  Nobody can dispute this!  Its not Subjective, its simple Fact.

 And if you tried to replace your cars steering wheel with a mini-analog, youd bang up your car to hell trying to park it.  It simply does not have the correct mechanical resistances and resolution of a proper wheel.  There is again, no subjectivity.  Its plain physics & facts.

 The thing is, you are deluded to the point where you are probably completely unaware of how you are getting killed.   As with poor control, you are going to move and react too slow... and it will appear that it was in fact your fault.  When instead, the proper control may have gotten you out of the way of something just in time.

 There is no denying physics, even with your so called handicap.  Which plainly is a bunch of bunk & excuses.

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