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Author Topic: area 51 monitor help!!  (Read 20263 times)

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adidas1984x

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area 51 monitor help!!
« on: October 06, 2010, 07:24:23 am »
I got me a area 51 dedicated cabinet works great, next day I go to use it after playing it for about 20 mins about 12 horizontal bars start to show up on the screen and get brighter and brighter the more the monitor is on finally the picture goes out and all that is left is one big bright white line in the middle of the monitor game is still on but the monitor is just down. its a neotec chassis and a phillips tube.
oh and I forgot to mention if I turn the machine off wait for a bout 5 mins then cut it on its ok again and then the process repeats itself

any help would be great
thanks
Justin
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 09:41:56 pm by adidas1984x »

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 12:49:40 pm »
check for bad solder joints on the flyback transformer

lilshawn

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 04:53:26 pm »
ic301 was prone to failure like that. it works sometimes until it heats up and the voooop! also causes dark/light lines to start to appear on the screen.

stems from a combination of bad heat transfer from the ic to the heat sink (lack of good grease coverage) and resistors that tend to get hot and start to burn up and change value. (r263 and r263a)

i would spend the $5 bucks for the IC to just flat out replace it and a couple of bucks for the resistors. be sure to get the plastic isolator on the screw or you will toast the chip the second you power it up.

since it still kind of works, i'd nip this one now, before you end up with a serious problem.

 also check the capacitors in and around the two brass colored heat sinks in the middle of the board, they are often on their way out too. (causes no power symptom and sometimes blows a whole bunch of stuff in the chassis. (i have 3 or 4 of theses totally toasted chassis. i can't fix them for the life of me.)

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 10:41:19 pm »
just so I know too is there another chassis that will work with this setup?

lilshawn

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 11:19:20 pm »
just so I know too is there another chassis that will work with this setup?

another NT500 chassis???

i'd guess if you want to replace the monitor i'd think any standard resoulution monitor would work. but they are getting few and far between... not to mention expensive.

if you think you can do it, you could repair the chassis you got for about $10 worth of parts.... $100 if you get someone to do it for you.  200 for a used monitor or 500 for new. dunno if you can get a chassis for it. hit up http://www.neotecgraphic.com for info on having them repair it.

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2010, 07:31:14 am »
would any monitor chassis work on the tube or does it have to be a neotec?

lilshawn

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2010, 11:24:20 am »
would any monitor chassis work on the tube or does it have to be a neotec?

a universal could be fitted, but the deflection yoke is really the issue... you would have a hard time matching it due to the fact you probably don't have an induction meter to test the millihenries rating of the coils to find a proper match.

a universal chassis could be had for a few hundred dollars... but i'll warn you, without being able to properly test and provide accurate coil measurement, you chances of success are about 50/50 or less. it may work alright at first, but because the coil is mismatched, everything starts running hot and eventually fails (if you can get that far).

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2010, 08:34:08 pm »
pics from under chassis what ya think?????

lilshawn

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 12:39:13 pm »
i'm suspect of this joint...

i'd remove all the solder and check to make sure the pad is still good and then put new solder on it. maybe even scrape a bit of the green coating off around the pad to make it bigger.

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 12:43:45 pm »
this will be my first time to try and solder so i hope it goes well lol, another question wouldanother chassis like a 8liners chassis work on it swaping it out i saw this article and didnt know if it would work with my monitor


http://retroblast.arcadecontrols.com/articles/8-Liners_1.html

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 03:00:00 pm »
straight to the horizontal yoke that suspect joint goes-a broken track there would give you a line down the centre of the screen and possibly then cut out

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 03:22:54 pm »
so basically i need to remove some of that solder and redo that spot that is circled

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 03:29:43 pm »
yes pretty much,you would need to desolder the pin completely and check that the track is not broken.then resolder and see what happens
it is possible that the arcing has damaged the flyback transformer

RejectedManiac

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2010, 03:35:08 pm »
Have you done a cap kit? It sounds like with the horizontal lines that it would be a vertical cap problem. I would def install a cap kit. Buy one for you chassis. http://therealbobroberts.net/caps.html has cheap cap kits as well as flybacks. Desolder the old caps with some desolder braid and solder in the new caps. Here is a great video of them explaining the lines problem as well as how to install caps. If you are looking to get your flyback repaired you can hit up chad at arcadecup.com and tell him Brandon sent you. He replaces absolutely everything and doesn't send it back until it is working. OR you can contact the guys who made the video I posted and they have an arcade repair podcast where you tell them what is wrong and they will try to help you repair it yourself. They are great guys. Hope I helped. I would say before you get it repaired contact the guys in the video and they will feature your question and answer on their next podcast.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 04:01:04 pm by RejectedManiac »

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2010, 05:42:46 pm »
i'm suspect of this joint...

i'd remove all the solder and check to make sure the pad is still good and then put new solder on it. maybe even scrape a bit of the green coating off around the pad to make it bigger.

Yeah, lilshawn spotted the same one that looks like it has been REALLY hot at some point to me, too.  Looks lumpy and not smooth and shiny.  That's a pin from the flyback transformer, too.  Suck that stuff out or use the braid and reflow with fresh solder.  I see a couple of points that appear to be pins touching adjoining traces, but I think that's just the angle of the pic.


adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2010, 01:55:29 am »
ok i redid the joint and it still is doing the same thing so i dont know what to do

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2010, 07:16:22 am »
if the track is good then its likely to be the flyback transformer,also you would need to check your yoke is not at fault by checking the impedance of the horizontal winding using a multimeter

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2010, 05:02:25 pm »
here is what it does right before the picture goes out and all i get is one big bright white line in the center of the monitor

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2010, 05:24:19 pm »
white line horizontal or vertical?

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2010, 06:27:40 pm »
It is horizontal and its only 1 line in the center of the monitor everything else is black all that shows is the one line after its been on for a while I can take a pic if needd I just don't want to damage anything

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2010, 06:51:40 pm »
been barking up the wrong tree with this one,if the line is going horizontally then you have a vertical frame collapse-if its happening after time then its most likely a bad solder joint around the vertical deflection ic-it could be a cap but caps tend to get better after getting warm rather than worse
if you have a remote board with a vertical size pot then check the pot itself and the connections

if its a bad solder joint then a gentle tap on the side of the cab will affect it-if its component failure then it will not

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2010, 08:29:07 pm »
ok update after 30 mins of playing the lines were there and then it did just the one big bright line in the center like always so i hit the side of the cabinet mid ways where the monitor is and the picture came back on with the 12 horizontal white lines so i made the pic visible again but i still dont know what is wrong here
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 09:40:31 pm by adidas1984x »

RejectedManiac

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2010, 01:51:29 am »
Those lines look like some vertical cap since there is horizontal lines. There is something vertical wrong. Since you hit the cab and it came back then that seems like something is loose or a cold solder joint in the vertical area. Could be some caps that went bad, cold solder joint on a cap, or a cold solder joint somewhere else dealing with vertical. I highly recommend doing a cap kit. After a cap kit is done then we have knock that problem out of the way and move onto something else to narrow the problem down. Not much else to say until a cap kit is done. Peace.

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2010, 06:02:04 am »
ok where can I buy the caps for the chassis i cant seem to find a seller online

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2010, 01:22:33 pm »
those thin lines are just flyback lines,meaning the screen volts is too high on the flyback and needs turning down
the fact that the picture reacts to a physical shock points squarely to a bad solder joint or plug connection

cap kits a shotgun job,sometimes you fix the problem but sometimes you don't


adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2010, 01:40:48 pm »
how would i turn down the flyback to get rid of those lines?

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2010, 03:21:58 pm »
how would i turn down the flyback to get rid of those lines?
on the flyback transformer there are 2 adjustments-one is focus and the other is screen volts
google flyback transformer images and you will see

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2010, 06:03:24 pm »
I can tell from your pics in your first post (and your videos on YouTube of the Area 51 cab) that your Neotec has a flyback mounted just like mine in my Gauntlet Legends cab.  It's on the right and your Screen and Focus controls are facing the right side of your cabinet (if you are facing the rear of your cab and looking at chassis).  You have to adjust these BLINDLY and it's aggravating, not to mention it makes you feel a little frightened of touching something you ought not to touch, lol!  Try to use one of the plastic tv alignment tools (I use one with simply a small flat head like a flathead screwdriver).  You have only a small area to work in, too, because that metal bracket is all but covering the flyback.  (the bracket on mine has a pincushion board attached to it, but yours may not)  The SCREEN adjustment (unless I am mistaken) is ALWAYS on the bottom and the FOCUS is ALWAYS the one on the top of the flyback.  Once you have adjusted these a couple times you probably will stick the alignment tool right in the correct spot almost every time.





Glad I took plenty of pics when I capped mine last year.  :)


adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2010, 09:08:22 pm »
just did it its better now but after about a hour the lines come back if i adjust it any more the picture collapses so i prob need to do something else

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2010, 02:43:30 pm »
it could be a capacitor breaking down,it could be a solder joint,it could be the flyback shorting internally
without a schematic on this then its all guess work

lilshawn

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2010, 02:49:55 pm »
here:

RejectedManiac

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2010, 12:20:00 am »
ok where can I buy the caps for the chassis i cant seem to find a seller online
Exactly what kind of chassis do you have? I can look for you. I just watched a video and they hit the arcade machine and it fixed it for a bit just like you. They said the HOT was the problem. Check your HOT

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2010, 09:19:51 am »
Its a neotec 2515 cm

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2010, 10:47:24 pm »
Any word on your HOT?
Here is some info on your chassis from therealbobroberts
http://therealbobroberts.net/neotec.html Tell him what chassis you got and he can help you with the caps+flyback
They seem pretty rare.. He is very knowledgeable with arcade machine repairs.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 10:51:31 pm by RejectedManiac »

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2010, 11:52:46 pm »
He received the cap kit and flyback already from Bob, and I agreed to help him out by installing them since he hasn't used a soldering iron much before.  (not that I'm a guru, either)  The chassis should be on it's way to me with the new parts, and I hope it fixes the issues.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2010, 05:14:31 pm »
O alright. Didn't see him mention that it was ordered. I'd check that HOT while your at it. By the way I would package thos puppies good. Just got mine back from repiar that was double boxed and still got cracked in shipment. Out of 140 bucks and a chassis. I am actually looking into those universal chassis from 8liners.com May get a 25" TV tube and give him the info on the tube to get me a universal. I hate Hantarex Polo!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 05:18:01 pm by RejectedManiac »

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2010, 06:29:13 pm »
He contacted me through YouTube about the cap kit and we sorted the details.  Hate to hear that about your chassis!  Dang!  (Eyeballing a Primal Rage pcb in the corner still boxed that came in today...)  Hope it's not cracked, lol.

That sounds like a cool thing to try with the TV tubes.  The guy who was an electronics engineer that I bought my most recent monitor from (WG K7400) was talking to me about how he had started using TV tubes to replace arcade tubes when they were shot.  He gave me a verbal list of the brands to try if I ever wanted to do it, but all I remember is him saying to STAY AWAY from Sony... lol!  I have his email, and I'll drop him a line if I ever end up doing it.

You've had bad luck with Hantarex Polos?  I have a 25" Polo in my MK2 that had a terrible display when I got the cabinet, but after a cap kit it really looks great.  I kept reading how delicate the Polo boards were, but it was my first cap kit installation, and I didn't have much trouble.  That was 2 years ago, and it still looks very nice.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2010, 10:02:23 am »
Keep an eye out for ANY solder joint that may look like it has a ring around it.
This one looks like it may be for the vertical yoke winding.
(for the collapse issue)

The white horizontal lines may still be the flyback (screen voltage pot) going south.
(but could be a number of things also, like caps, connections, etc)
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2010, 05:29:34 pm »
I'm going to first inspect it for any visible damage and take some pics to assure him it arrived safely from UPS.  Then I'll make a point to note any questionable joints and reflow them.  I am sure even if I reflowed a suspicious joint and it seemed to fix the issue, he's still wanting me to install the kit and the new flyback.  I'm hopeful it will turn out nicely.

And I'll make a point to check the HOT.

Wish me luck...  ;)

adidas1984x

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2010, 08:08:08 pm »
Good luck my friend I am so ready for it to be back in action
thank you so much for all the help

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2010, 12:20:08 am »
Been looking over it.  That solder joint you reflowed on the flyback that we all saw earlier in this thread looks BAAAAAAD!   :(  The pin sticking through is not joined with the solder AT ALL.  I hope the trace (which is now lifting pretty bad) will take some fresh solder.  I think it will be ok.

Your 2-pin connection for your degauss has the solder joints cracked all the way around both pins and is wobbling all around.  I'll reflow them with fresh solder.  Found one place where 2 pins are touching on the back of the chassis, but I think they are linked to the same trace.

Your new flyback like the one pictured here:



does not line up properly with the screw at the top where it attaches to the metal bracket for added support, but there is a hole in the bracket that I think I can make work to support it.
It would have worked better if you bought this model:



but I think they are functionally the same.  Also, the little clip that holds the red and gray wires was broken when I opened the package.  (No biggie, just serves to guide the wires somewhat.)  Might have been that way when you received them as I could not find the broken off bit in the package anywhere.

Funny thing, too (not surprising being a Neotec) your chassis looks ALMOST identical to my Medium Res NT-2701.  VERY SLIGHT differences.

Will likely start the work on this tomorrow afternoon man.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 12:27:42 am by MKFan4Life »

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2010, 12:49:51 am »
Keep an eye out for ANY solder joint that may look like it has a ring around it.
This one looks like it may be for the vertical yoke winding.
(for the collapse issue)

The white horizontal lines may still be the flyback (screen voltage pot) going south.
(but could be a number of things also, like caps, connections, etc)

My gosh!  You've got darned good eyes!  Just checked that exact pin, and sure enough, it's in the same state as his degauss pins... cracked almost completely around the joint!  I think I'll be on this chassis a while adidas1984X!  And yep, it's for the vertical yoke winding.  Definitely going to reflow EVERY joint where pins for connectors are.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2010, 06:08:20 am »
yea I emailed the guy about the flyback he said thats the correct one for my chassis lol

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2010, 07:30:57 pm »
I believe there are a few models that will work with these Neotec boards, 'cause when I Googled them, yours usually came up in a listing with the other models, but I think there are simply differences in the housing.

I'm going to fix all the bad solder joints first, especially the one on the flyback and that one Kevin spotted (am betting that is your main culprit!).  Then I will test it out on one of my spare 25" tubes and see if it displays ok and if your initial symptoms have improved.  That will tell us if it was the flyback I hope, unless it ended up getting damaged from the arcing.  I'll keep you updated man.

Pics of your ACTUAL old flyback and the ACTUAL new one so you can see the housing difference and the broken wire clip on the new one:

The arrow points to a spot I could likely use for the hold-down screw for your new flyback:


The arrow points to the spot the screw will have to enter on your new flyback:


Here's the broken clip on your new flyback:


And another view of the broken clip:




MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2010, 11:50:42 pm »
Can someone tell me, since this trace is all but burned OFF at the flyback pin, would it be best to:

1.  Slightly bend the pin towards the remaining trace and try to get it to take solder...
OR...
2.  Use a jumper wire (what gauge?) to connect the pin on the flyback to the horizontal yoke pin the trace leads to...



Also, I was planning on making all obvious repairs to the joints I found that needed attention (just look at all the cracked joints!) and then testing the chassis on a tube BEFORE attempting to install his new caps and flyback (just to see if one of the repairs fixed the original problems he had).  Would this be a bad idea if that old flyback was internally damaged and caused the initial arcing on that joint?  (Since I might end up with more damage.)

Should I just go ahead and use one of the above options along with installing the new flyback instead of retesting the chassis with the old flyback?

THANKS!!!   :dunno

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2010, 12:43:03 am »
Quote
Can someone tell me, since this trace is all but burned OFF at the flyback pin, would it be best to:

1.  Slightly bend the pin towards the remaining trace and try to get it to take solder...
OR...
2.  Use a jumper wire (what gauge?) to connect the pin on the flyback to the horizontal yoke pin the trace leads to...

1... if the pin will reach well within a newly scraped area on the remaining trace. (3mm or 1/8 inch) if not, bend the pin in the direction and use some flux braid or some stripped off electrical wire (110v) to make a connection to the trace. be generous with the solder.

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2010, 12:47:13 am »
Thanks!  Going to see if I can connect it to the trace again first.  There are really LOTS of cracked joints on the chassis.  I am hitting all the large ones and any that I can tell are cracked or iffy.


UPDATE:
I tried.  Looks ok, but the trace was pretty bad.

Scraped and cleaned before:


Shot 1 after:


Shot 2 after


Shot 3 after:


Wanted to check the HOT, but I've not done that before.  Isn't this the HOT (C4769)?


And this from another angle:


I read a bit about checking for shorts from base to emitter and collector, but I have a digital multimeter and am not sure how to check it properly.  In the circuit, it seems to be showing .000 volts on the diode checking selection when black lead is on base and red on emitter... with it on collector, starts at 1/2 volt or so and continues until it reaches about 2 volts and then just reads ".OL".  Reversing the leads reads .000 for base to emitter AND base to collector.  (Base & Emitter labeled on chassis.)  Is this unreliable until taken out of circuit for testing?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 02:40:57 am by MKFan4Life »

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2010, 11:38:23 am »
to properly check it you will have to remove it.

even if it tests okay (even with a B&K checker i have) they test okay, but fail when under load.

do a resistance check between the outside legs and the middle. if you read a short, it's definitely bad. if not, it's probably still good.

if you suspect it's bad or iffy, it's worth the $5 to just replace it , be done with it, and have one less thing to worry about.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2010, 05:26:58 pm »
So there's no doubt this IS the HOT right?  There are a couple more transistors with rather large heatsinks on the pcb, but this is the biggest and being near the flyback and horizontal width coil, I figured it'd be the HOT for sure.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2010, 06:00:49 pm »
C4769 - Yes, that is the H.O.T

Your trace repair looks fine, but just a note for future reference maybe.......might come in handy.

I keep all the leg clippings from cap kits, resistors, etc, for trace repairs like this.
So like I would have used a leg clipping from one of the larger caps or something (thicker legs) and made a small loop on the end to fit over the flyback pin and then bent it to follow the original trace, and then soldered it down good.

Just an idea for ya.
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2010, 06:06:55 pm »
Thanks for the tip.  I have actually done just that sort of thing in the past when installing a cap kit and ran into a damaged trace.  But yeah, I figured the thicker legs would be best for something like a flyback.  Thank you.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2010, 11:14:08 pm »
I know chad from arcade cup uses 16 gauge wire for traces that are burned away. He just strips the wire solders the wire to the leg with the trace gone and fallows the trace where it leads and solders there to make sure there is no break anywhere along the trace. Extra security I guess. As for the flyback I would go ahead and replace it. It will save problems down the road. Also it's out of the cab and he can't do it so might as well get that out of the way esp since it's already bought. It will add extra life to it of course. By the way just heard his problem on arcaderepairtips.com podcast. They said def replace the caps and flyback. They also mentioned the coil as well to take a look at.

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2010, 07:34:48 pm »
Been slowly continuing work on his chassis (was on vacation for a few days over the weekend, so wasn't able to get much done during that time).  After the initial reflowing of as many solder joints as I could find, the chassis was running pretty good in my opinion.  Even with it running up to 2 hours (I think I told adidas1984x I ran it for an hour, but it was really about 2), I never saw the collapse issue take place.  There was certain times I fired it up and saw the flyback or retrace lines slightly visible, but they usually never got any more evident as it operated longer and adjustment of the Screen control fixed the issue.

I am replacing all the caps now and going to do the flyback (sorry, I am a slow worker with stuff like this).  I am also reflowing joints on the neckboard, because I tried myself to slightly jar the frame of the monitor while testing the chassis after the reflowing of the bad/cracked joints on the main chassis and noticed red-colored horizontal tearing if I hit it rather hard, but nothing with just a slight tap or so.  Then I isolated it to the neckboard.  The chassis itself seemed stable when jarred, but tapping on the edges of the neckboard lightly produced the same results as jarring the frame harder.

You really wouldn't be jarring the cabinet around hard enough to do this normally, unless you got pissed at the game, lol.  I'm not sure if the jarring was disrupting connections with the pins on the neck of the tube, or if it is a bad joint, so I'm reflowing anything there that seems in question.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2010, 07:42:58 pm »
take your time Im in no hurry you are awesome thanks for all the help

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2010, 08:38:15 pm »
Got his chassis all recapped and retested it after the kit to insure all is well before I start here in a minute on his new flyback.  I think honestly it is repaired right now, but he has the new flyback, and I am going to go ahead and install it in case that collapse issue is lying dormant at the moment and the flyback is the culprit.

I repaired the white Focus wire from the flyback to the tube socket (was weak enough inside socket it broke loose during cap kit install), and also stripped, tinned, and resoldered his red G2 wire to the neckboard as it was very frayed.  Here's a before and after of the chassis:

     

     


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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2010, 11:36:35 pm »
i would remove the vertical deflection IC and make sure it has enough thermal grease on it. i believe it's IC301

often they are applied VERY sparingly, and they can overheat. and it takes 2 minutes to do.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2010, 12:09:46 am »
Ok, I see that IC.  It appears to have enough that it's seeping from around the sides a little bit.  Also, there are about 13 pins to desolder, and I don't have any thermal grease to replace on it, so I think I won't chance making it worse by removing it.

I know it might be the smart thing to do, but if I check everything on the chassis, I'll never get it back to him.  It is working fine from what I've seen after the cap kit, but I am right now installing the new flyback anyways since he has bought it.  (got behind a day or two ago and just now got the old one out)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 12:12:28 am by MKFan4Life »

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2010, 12:58:15 am »
if it's seeping out around the edges, it's probably has enough then.

check the resistors in front of the IC301, they dump the voltage down to drive the IC's VCC, sometimes they get hot and lose value. other than that, it looks great.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2010, 01:30:46 am »
I'll check those.

Just had to slow down to do some research on the flyback wire color coding.  I believe his new flyback has the G2 as a purplish/gray wire and the Focus as a red wire, where the old one had red for G2 and white for Focus.  Glad I slowed down.  The new flyback's red wire is rated at 20KVDC (like the white on old flyback) and it's purplish/gray wire is rated at only 1000VAC/1200VDC (like the red on old flyback), so I could have reversed these if I hadn't read a few threads on here first.  Also noticed where they emerge from at the bottom of both flybacks, which seems to confirm the coloring is not a true sign of what they're for. (unless this can vary)

So the Focus will be the thicker insulated, higher voltage-rated wire I guess.  Always learning something new... cool.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2010, 01:37:26 am »
don't you love it when they change things.

i wired up a trailer brake controller for my boss, it had white, black red and blue wires.

so you'd think red was positive, black was negative, white to the brake switch and blue to the trailer? (or even maybe blue to the brakes and white to the trailer)

nope

it was positive to black, negative to white brake switch was red, and the trailer was blue.

 :dizzy:

so much for standards... i guess it kind of makes sense.. but...

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #60 on: November 08, 2010, 01:42:44 am »
People who change standards like these should be shot... ok... at least tickled really hard until they can't breathe!  Lol!   :laugh2:

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2010, 10:52:50 pm »
Couple more hiccups on this flyback installation.

The footprint has a part that slightly juts into the way of a ceramic disc cap, unlike the old flyback.  I was able to bend the cap out of the way enough to clear it.  But then, when I tried to seat the flyback, the 2 pins that appear to be there for mounting support (right under the Screen and Focus knobs), won't allow me to seat all the way down.  They are a little farther away from the main 10 pins than those 2 pins on the original flyback.  Here's a pic:



Also, I don't know HOW I didn't see these cracks as soon as I removed the old flyback.  But they are very evident sitting on the work table:



I REALLY think the MRCFT-252 should be put back in this chassis.  But I have seen the MRCFT-216 listed for "NT-2515C" (this chassis has an "M" added, thus "NT-2515CM") on arcadecup.com and another site.  Not sure where adidas1984x bought this MRCFT-216 from, but he said they told him this is what fits his chassis.

Does anyone know if I can just bend these 2 support pins enough to make the flyback seat down all the way (while still allowing them to poke through and be soldered), or will this cause problems?

grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2010, 04:22:08 am »
i would just bend them to fit if it were me doing this job

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2010, 06:15:11 am »
Yes the flyback I bought from chad at arcade cup I would prefer to have the original for good piece of mind.............
or would it be ok to use this one without damaging anything ...... i just need advise LOL
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 08:26:45 am by adidas1984x »

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2010, 06:59:11 pm »
Contacted Neotec Support from the email link on their site and a "Peter Wang" replied with this:

Quote
you can use ft- 216 flyback. nt-2515cm is very old one. so the layout is little different with the newer version.but the flyback are same.

neotec
peter

So I will go ahead and bend the pins enough to allow them to still be soldered, but let the flyback seat all the way down.

I actually am wondering what it would hurt to cut those 2 pins off completely?  Are they ACTUALLY connected to anything inside the transformer?  Or do they dead-end somewhere inside and are simply for support only?  The traces on the chassis for them lead to ground and there are 2 other pins that solder to traces leading to ground.  Anyone know for sure?

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2010, 01:15:23 am »
Got the flyback installed and repaired that nasty trace a lot better.  Used 14 gauge home electrical "Romex", as some like to call it, wire.  Thanks for the suggestion lilshawn, and also RejectedManiac who mentioned Chad at The Arcade Cup using a similar method.

Here are some pics:

New flyback installed...



...and the trace repaired better:




Also found a bad joint on the remote board...



...and reflowed it:



Tomorrow I hope I can do some final testing and start packing it up for adidas1984x.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2010, 02:54:05 pm »
that romex can carry a ton of current, no chance of that burning out.  :lol

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2010, 06:12:09 pm »
Yeah.  For future reference, I will never wire an entire house with the 12 gauge.  That darned stuff is so stiff it's tough to manage when routing it.  My wife's uncle talked me into doing it with our house 'cause he said it's nice to have that along with 20 AMP breakers while you're building so you can hook up your compressors, saws, and the like right into your outlets instead of dragging extension cords around everywhere.  Twice as frustrating is fishing it through deep holes in exterior log walls.  ARGH!  :banghead:

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2010, 09:53:55 pm »
The final testing went well.  The flyback seems to be working great along with the newly-installed cap kit.  I left it running for several hours with zero issues and even banged around on the frame of the monitor a little to see if there might still be any bad solder joints.  It's rock solid.  Played through Mortal Kombat 1 with absolutely no glitching, collapse, or anything to note.  Shipped it back out to him Saturday morning.
 :laugh:

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2010, 08:06:35 am »
Good deal.  :cheers:
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2010, 08:29:09 pm »
I got the chassis back and it looks fantastic MKFAN4Life did a amazing job I cant thank him enough
I just finished installing it and doing the necessary adjustments and it looks amazing thank you again and pics and vid to follow
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 07:18:25 am by adidas1984x »

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2010, 08:36:32 pm »
Awesome!  Glad it made the trip safely and you got it all back together ok!  Definitely look forward to your updated restoration vids on that cab man.  ;D

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2010, 10:04:00 pm »
vid of the awesome working monitor


grantspain

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2010, 05:40:22 pm »
MKFan4Life deserves a big pat on the back for sorting that out-bloody rare to find anyone these days who is willing to help
he's got my respect :)

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2010, 01:24:16 pm »
*thumbs up*  :applaud:

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2010, 07:59:21 pm »
Good job man. That's why we call this arcade thing a COMMUNITY.

As the old saying goes... One hand washes the other and both hands wash the face.  Then... we eat!

MKFan4Life

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2010, 08:07:52 pm »
So true.  Just don't try washing your hands or face, or eating while working on your arcade machines... lol!   :laugh2:

lilshawn

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Re: area 51 monitor help!!
« Reply #77 on: November 20, 2010, 04:03:01 pm »
So true.  Just don't try washing your hands or face, or eating while working on your arcade machines... lol!   :laugh2:

unrelated to OP but: i had a cab come in last week... had 2 crackers smashed up UNDER the lexan on the control panel. i'm like WTF?!?!?  :dizzy: