Dimmer/LED circuit Question

[drventure]

Ok, this might be a tad off topic of arcade machines, but maybe some electrically inclined members might have an idea or two.

Here's what I've got.



Basically, it's a pretty standard floor lamp (it's actually a restored antique I've been working on).

Originally, it was just a plain light bulb, a switch and a cord out to the wall.

I had a dimmer module lying around so I decided to use that and "Upgrade" it.

Works great. I just connected it and the lamp to common, connect HOT to the dimmer module and the dimmer module grey output wire to the lamp, and finally connect a control line to some metal point on the lamp body, so when you touch the lamp, it turns on, or dims or turns off.

No big deal.

Here's the rub though.

I'd +like+ to hook up a little LED driver module on the output, such that when the lamp is on, some LED's I embedded within it also come on.

The drawing is how I've got it wired.

Actually, it works, partially.

Essentially, when I plug it in, the lamp is off, if I touch it, the lamp and LEDs come on, but then, touching it again has no effect.

I'm guessing that the dimmer module uses some sort of capacitance on the lamp's body that's interrupted by touch, but, the LED module is draining that off somehow? I'm more a software guy, so I'm just guessing at that, however.

Any ideas how, or what, I might need to accomplish this?

One caveat. I'm hoping to avoid in bare breadboard circuit work, esp around the line voltage. Wiring things up with wirenuts is one one thing, but that's about as DIY as I want to get, for safeties sake.

[gryhnd]

No idea out of the gate, but FYI you're missing the attachment   

[lilshawn]

likely the harmonics being produced by the dimer module is being fed into your led module and rippling back to the dimmer circuit causing your issue... disconnect the led unit and verify proper touch operation. if there is still a malfunction, your dimmer is the issue.

Electronic loads like switching power supplies (which i believe your led module is) are not generally designed to be dimmed.

The power supply might get damaged because it has never been designed to operate on other waveforms than sinewave (other waveforms can cause current spikes).
The dimmer can be damaged by the high current surge what a switching power supply takes when the triac on dimmer starts to conduct in the middle of the phase before the power supply shutsdown.

[Ed_McCarron]

Electronic loads like switching power supplies (which i believe your led module is) are not generally designed to be dimmed.

LED's don't dim well without going to some type of PWM -- they just seem to turn off at a certain voltage.

[drventure]

Hmm. Good points.

The LED driver was actually recommended here, but I didn't initially plan on hooking it up behind the dimmer.

Actually, i don't really want to "dim" the led's, just switch them on/off based on whether the lamp is on (at all) or off.

Maybe there's some other "dimmer" controller I could use?

Just guessing. I might just not bother with the LED's (though they do look cool, rats 

[drventure]

@gryhnd

"Missing the attachment"?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you not seeing the picture of the circuit that's embedded in the post?

[gryhnd]

@gryhnd

"Missing the attachment"?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you not seeing the picture of the circuit that's embedded in the post?

correct

[EvilNuff]

I see it just fine, must be gryhnd not the post.

[drventure]

Weird. I pushed a post with the link last night and it was there last night but appears to be gone today.

Hmm. Well, here it is again, incase the embedded image isn't showing up for anyone.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=103207.0;attach=154577

[gryhnd]

Figured it out. Adblock Plus is hiding it for some reason.

How about just using a relay of some sort? Any power to the bulb triggers the relay and turns on your LEDs.

[drventure]

But I suspect a relay wouldn't isolate the led driver from dimmer module. As it is, they just don't seem to work together at all.

[gryhnd]

But I suspect a relay wouldn't isolate the led driver from dimmer module. As it is, they just don't seem to work together at all.

A diode and/or cap in line? I'm not an E.E....so a total stab here. I'm done, bye bye 

[drventure]

 

Yeah, I thought about that, but that's going to require a tad more EE that I've got, too. Plus, it's messing with line voltage, which I'd rather not do.

Well, my led's may have been installed for naught.

Bugger that.