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How do you know your JAMMA PCB is legal?

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Driver-Man:

WhereEaglesDare,

I too do not see how any of "those" multi-game PCBs can be legal.

I do not own arcade shop.
It matters to me in all those ways I expressed via my questions, I'm curious.

Why does it matter to you why does it matter to me? It's always better to know, right?



Driver-Man:


--- Quote from: jimmy2x2x on September 09, 2010, 11:48:28 pm ---If you want to know about a specific PCB then you could ask about it here or maybe on KLOV.

I don't think there is any quick at-a-glance way to identify bootlegs, some are more obvious than others with very different board layouts or missing key design elements like manufacturers logos etc..

I wouldn't put any weight in any paperwork you might acquire with a board, its the board itself you need to examine and verify.


--- End quote ---

Yeah, it's all very vague and original copyrights perhaps can not stand very well against abuse in today's circumstances, especially since they seem did not matter too much in the past.


The point is... where is the line?

Why would everyone be able to freely sell/operate 60-in-1  PCBs, and I can not my home-made 200-in-1 PC? Just because it's made in China, perhaps because emulator and ROMs are better hidden, so not many people know it's the MAME just the same? Is "arcade police" that stupid? Konami, Sega, Nintendo... do they not know, why do they do not do anything? Have they actually done anything about those '80-'90 bootlegs, ever?


...and so, who is going to object when I operate/sell my home made "200-in-1" MAME based PC? Sega? And, if I put it all on some ARM based PCB and hide all the ROMs and emulator, then that would apparently be Ok, as far as e-bay, police, sega, konami, nintendo... are concerned, anyway, right? So, what should I be worried about at the end? Who is going to sue me and for what? MAME developers for ignoring their "non-commercial use" notice?

It all sounds to me like some "scare tactics" with very little actual legal grounds, which ironically seem to have started with MAME itself. People know ROMs are illegal because MAME say so, while actual licenses expired long time ago, do not legally exist anymore, can not be applied, or apparently real copyright holders, if any, do not even care. Unless, am I mistaken?


nitz:


--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 12:39:21 am ---Yeah, it's all very vague and original copyrights perhaps can not stand very well against abuse in today's circumstances, especially since they seem did not matter too much in the past.

--- End quote ---

The copyrights are as valid today as they ever were. I'm no expert on copyright law, but as far as I can surmise, I doubt any of us are going to live long enough to see the copyrights expire on these games. Having said that, most of the copyright owners aren't as likely to go after the infringers now because they have so much less to gain from doing so than they did back when their games were profitable. I think it did matter in the past, it's just that it's hard to stop.


--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 12:39:21 am ---Why would everyone be able to freely sell/operate 60-in-1  PCBs, and I can not my home-made 200-in-1 PC?
--- End quote ---

They freely sell 60 in 1s because no one stops them, not because it's better or more legal than selling a home made PC equivalent.


--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 12:39:21 am ---...and so, who is going to object when I operate/sell my home made "200-in-1" MAME based PC? Sega? And, if I put it all on some ARM based PCB and hide all the ROMs and emulator, then that would apparently be Ok, as far as e-bay, police, sega, konami, nintendo... are concerned, anyway, right? So, what should I be worried about at the end? Who is going to sue me and for what? MAME developers for ignoring their "non-commercial use" notice?

It all sounds to me like some "scare tactics" with very little actual legal grounds, which ironically seem to have started with MAME itself. People know ROMs are illegal because MAME say so, while actual licenses expired long time ago, do not legally exist anymore, can not be applied, or apparently real copyright holders, if any, do not even care. Unless, am I mistaken?


--- End quote ---

Since you asked, a lot of people here are going to object to you selling a homemade cab with mame and roms on it. And I'm sure the mame devs could sue you if they wanted to, and the copyright holders definitely could. It's doubtful that they actually would unless you do this on a very large, very public scale, but they would certainly have grounds to do so if they found out about it and wanted to take action.

These are not scare tactics. It's the truth. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a commercial video game that is not still under copyright. Even if the original company no longer exists, somebody owns the copyright still. Sure, some of the copyright holders don't care, but the games are definitely under copyright.

I get the feeling that you're hoping someone's going to say, "Hey, you're right! That's all abadonware, you should totally sell homemade cabs with mame and 200 games on them!" I doubt anyone here is going to say that to you.

I guess you're new here, and I welcome you to the forum.  :) I'm not trying to sound negative or bring you down. Just stating some facts and kindly advising you to drop this topic as you're likely going to just upset a lot of folks here if you keep pursuing it.

jimmy2x2x:

I think individuals know they are infringing by possessing roms they don't have a legal right to, but they don't openly distribute them, publicly display them or make any kind of money from them.  This seems to be the acceptable, unspoken rule regarding roms for many.

The Mame licence on the other hand is utterly respected, I think this respect is two fold: for the work done in the past and more importantly the ongoing work into the future.  We all love Mame, it has a cleverly worded licence that would make it difficult to be shut down by any concerned third parties.  I feel this is the reason almost everyone is vigilant about the enforcement and upkeep of the terms of Mame's licence.

Where as the majority wouldn't care at all if the 60-1 factory was shut down and sued into oblivion.

Thats my take on it, and that is where I draw the line.







SavannahLion:


--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 12:39:21 am ---It all sounds to me like some "scare tactics" with very little actual legal grounds, which ironically seem to have started with MAME itself. People know ROMs are illegal because MAME say so, while actual licenses expired long time ago, do not legally exist anymore, can not be applied, or apparently real copyright holders, if any, do not even care. Unless, am I mistaken?

--- End quote ---

This is a topic that has come up in various forms time and time again in every single forum I've ever been a member of. Even if that forum theoretically has nothing to do with copyrights in any fashion anyways.

You appear to be misinformed about copyrights and how it's applied. But before we go any further, I should point out that what I'm going to write applies to U.S. territories. Other countries have different copyright laws which further complicate things.

First of, the issues about copyrights did NOT start with MAME. They haven't been around long enough. MAMEDev simply recognizes the issues that surround copyrights and (apparently) make an effort to avoid getting attention from those who count. So please, refrain crediting MAMEDev with something that's been going on long before the first line of code was ever written.

AFAIK, under current law, no game license has naturally expired at all. Video games are simply too young for copyrights to expire. Here's why. As a rule of thumb, works created on or after 1978 enjoy anywhere from 70 years + life of the creator (eg if I create a game and release it) to 120 years (eg if I work for a company to create the game).
   
Games created before 1978 (eg Pong) fall under some wicked copyright laws that it would potentially take pages of discussion to unravel what it means. In a nutshell though, since the creators of Pong are still alive the clock hasn't even started to tick for most of these games. By my calculations, the earliest any game would have a hope of having a naturally expiring copyright would be in 2042 and that would require the author to suffer an immediate death upon burning the first data to chip.

As for whether these people care or the company collapses or whatever. That is also a discussion that could potentially take an entire dedicated forum to figure out. It's very easy for copyright holders to not even realize they own the copyright to a particular game. Happens with movies often enough Night of the Comet is a prime example. Other times it could simply be an issue of cost/benefit. I have serious doubts that little old Grannie with the attic full of her dead son's copyrights would ever have the money or wherewithall to pursue some anonymous company in China selling X-in-1 boards in an online store located in Japan.
   
In short, X in 1 boards violate copyrights, period. Either whomever owns the rights to the game or even the MAME developers but they violate copyright. AFAIK, most (if not all) of us here know this and we accept it for what it is (whether we agree is an entirely different matter). Try not to be an jerk trying to justify something we all know to be true anyways. Show the hobby and market some respect.

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