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How do you know your JAMMA PCB is legal?
SavannahLion:
Oh, I guess I should apologize if I come of sounding tart. But then again, I don't have to deal with you in RL, so... oh well.
nitz:
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 10:49:41 pm ---I do not suggest anyone should break any laws or ignore any copyrights. Perhaps it is confusing that I pose my questions as examples set in real-world circumstances and from the first person point of view, but that's only to be more illustrative.
--- End quote ---
Ok, but earlier you said:
--- Quote ---Why would everyone be able to freely sell/operate 60-in-1 PCBs, and I can not my home-made 200-in-1 PC?
--- End quote ---
and
--- Quote ---...and so, who is going to object when I operate/sell my home made "200-in-1" MAME based PC?
--- End quote ---
I guess to be fair, you didn't actually say you intended to sell PCs loaded with mame and roms, but I hope you can see how it appeared that way.
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 10:49:41 pm ---Look, I *legally* bought my JAMMA PCBs, that you all say now are actually illegal (according to something).
--- End quote ---
I get that in some sense, you *legally* bought these if you didn't know they were illegal. I'm not gonna go googling for it, but I believe many places do have some provision in the law that will not hold you responsible for buying counterfit product if it's reasonable that you could have thought it was legit. Buying them could be a bit of a grey area. Selling and manufacturing them on the other hand is definitely illegal.
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 10, 2010, 10:49:41 pm ---
--- Quote ---Saying the copyrights are no longer valid, or that it's legal to sell mame and roms you don't own, well, that's simply not true. It's not something we all have differing opinions on or anything - it's a fact and you really can't argue about it without looking silly.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps, but that would also make it that much easier for you to prove it so.
--- End quote ---
OH COME ON! :laugh2: This statement really made me laugh! Do I really have to prove to you that if the mame license says you can't sell it, that makes it illegal to do so, or that people selling COPYRIGHTED material THEY DO NOT OWN is illegal? It's almost like you want a link to some official government website with an official government seal that has a detailed list of every bootleg, xx in 1 board, and permutation therof that ever existed and says legal or illegal beside each one!
Checkout the links that SavannahLion posted. I didn't look at them myself because I don't feel I need to, but I'm sure the government (which seems to be one of your main concerns) website is going to give you some accurate information.
The issue is not whether you bought a board and got an invoice or whether people who have sold such boards have been convicted or not. You seem to be saying that getting an invoice + no convictions of sellers = it must be legal. There're folks out there everyday selling pot who never get caught - doesn't make it legal (in most countries anyway). Would you need us to direct you to a website that says that's illegal?
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 12:57:56 am ---...what I'm actually saying is that all that should be FREE, so no one would be selling it.
--- End quote ---
Mame is free. And I agree with you that roms of old games should be as well (they are available for free actually, but not in the way you're suggesting I guess). IMO The copyright laws are stupid. Stuff gets protected for decades longer than it should. But feeling the laws are stupid and getting invoices and whatnot doesn't change them.
If you're still not convinced that this stuff is illegal after all everyone has said, then :dunno
Driver-Man:
nitz,
C'mon, I'm not really saying those laws are not there, but they do differ from place to place, and even if not they would still be open for interpretation and subject to circumstances. I am trying to understand how all that theory plays out in practice.
Yes, I say: "buying it in retail store and getting an invoice = it IS legal to operate and re-sell". Not to manufacture, as then you would certainly be aware of copyright violation, but as a simple consumer you do not need to know, hence can not be liable. Is there any argument here that opposes this logic? Beside that I mostly agree with everything everyone else said, except that I don't see see how that relates with 'selling pot' on the street. That's the opposite, there is no invoice there, while these x-in-1 are sold in retail stores and taxed, therefore "inspected and approved" by the government.
SavannahLion,
I actually Googled quite a bit, and I did read your links, well what I thought were the important or relevant bits anyway, but you can always be more specific if you wish to avoid misunderstanding. Those are actually good links and they do answer most of my questions from the opening post, thank you. I agree with all that, but now I am talking about the point of view of an unsuspected consumer, or non-informed arcade operator, or arcade cabinet builder who plays stupid along with everyone else...
Example:
- I build arcade cabinet and buy 60-in-1 PCB to complete the machine, then sell it on auction. Would that be disrespecting anyone? Would that make me an ass? Would that hurt anyone anyhow, emotionally, financially? Would I be stupid for buying something which is free for download? Would that be illegal? Is that something you would never do, why exactly?
Question:
- People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?
Nintendo:
- The problem is that it's illegal.... As a copyright owner, and creator of such famous characters, only Nintendo has the right to benefit from such valuable assets.
Nintendon't, but if they would release it to the public it would not be illegal any more, arrrgh!! That's just rotten, they would rather no one plays the games if they can not get a dollar out of it. That's like wishing your cow dies just because golden fish promised all the double would happen to your neighbor. And what is worse that little matters in practice since here we are with all these x-in-1 PCBs freely sold. It's not you and me who is profiting, but some guys in China, or wherever, and it's not our fault, but government's for letting that be imported, tho they of course do take their share on the way, so.... hey, wait a second, finally I can see this similarity with drugs!
CheffoJeffo:
I am failing to see what the actual issue is here, other than Driver-Man doesn't seem to get that the law is the law and all he is saying is that it shouldn't be (gee, THAT's original).
It is NOT legal to operate or resell an illegal board, no matter where/how you obtained it. The situation is black and white and not open for interpretation nor subject to circumstances. It is pure folly to assume that because something is available for sale (which is all that the "sold in retail stores and taxed" means) that it is legal and does not infringe.
I see bootleg DVDs for sale all the time -- are they legal ? No and you would never think so if you have even an ounce of grey matter bouncing around inside that cavernous skull.
As far as selling an xx-in-1 cabinet and who that disrespects, it disrespects the various IP owners. I don't think that many folks here worry about disrespecting the companies that own the rights to the ROMs, but this is a MAME-friendly site, so I expect that most would be pissed off at the disrespect that it shows the MAMEDevs.
Again, same old stuff (where is Hoopz with his summary?) ... nothing new, except for the OP's determination in insisting that available for sale == legal.
newmanfamilyvlogs:
i think i feel a little dumber after reading this thread.