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How do you know your JAMMA PCB is legal?
Driver-Man:
SavannahLion,
--- Quote ---Arguing about the application of copyrights doesn't do anyone a lick of good. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and read up on copyright laws with a neutral mind. Understand that this is the way it is. Any preconceived notions you may have about copyright laws just makes you look like an ass and taints any possibility of understanding all of this.
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Why so angry? I'm asking questions here, and you are telling me I should have already known the answers? You are being an ass, though your unprovoked anger makes it all interesting and I am still looking forward to figuring out what is it about this subject that makes you so nervous to keep farting like that.
You are not really saying anything specific, you just keep insulting me for no reason and repeating YOUR OPINION, insisting that your opinion is better than my opinion, without any actual proof or reference to the facts and the real world.
Q.) If you buy X-in-1 in retail shop and get an invoice for it, then can it be illegal to operate or re-sell that PCB? YES/NO
Yes, it's illegal? According to whom, according to what?
I want to do exactly what you suggested, I want to read about it, but what, where? Show me.
We know all the opinions now, and I appreciate everyone's OPINION, but opinion is just an opinion, and if I was right, if this was indeed some "scare tactics" then everyone would have this opinion just like this. But you can not prove an opinion by keep repeating it, that's how mass-hypnosis and self-convincing works to start with. I want to talk about actuality, the real world and FACTS, not about your propaganda filled, self-sustained hallucinations. I want to see citations, quotes and references, past legal actions and previous convictions, stuff that actually happened, in the real world.
Haze,
--- Quote ---*Note, Ultracade did get taken to court over all of this, probably because they were a much easier target (being US based), and were advertising their goods as being genuine and licensed when the copyright owners felt otherwise, claiming they had no contract / license with them.
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Ok, that's kind of stuff I want to know about. Not opinions, just facts. So, did the court found them guilty? Who pressed the charges? Where can I read about how it ended?
Driver-Man:
nitz,
--- Quote ---I was just referring to talk about selling mame and roms. That's all. It's totally cool to talk about mame and roms here of course, but not selling them or where to find roms.
We disagree on what you're saying about the copyrights on these games and the legality of selling them.
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I do not suggest anyone should break any laws or ignore any copyrights. Perhaps it is confusing that I pose my questions as examples set in real-world circumstances and from the first person point of view, but that's only to be more illustrative.
Look, I *legally* bought my JAMMA PCBs, that you all say now are actually illegal (according to something). Now, I do not want be violating any laws if I decide later to sell these PCBs, therefore I argue - if government let me buy this thing legally then I am not obligated to do any further investigation to find out whether this product is really legal or not, why would I? I am not disassembling Nvidia graphic drivers to see if they stole some technology from ATI, right? And thus I conclude, there can be no charges pressed against me in such circumstances, therefore that item is IN FACT legal to be bought, sold and operated without this "consumer" having any liability even if it turns out item was counterfeited and copyright holder does indeed try to press charges.
--- Quote ---Saying the copyrights are no longer valid, or that it's legal to sell mame and roms you don't own, well, that's simply not true. It's not something we all have differing opinions on or anything - it's a fact and you really can't argue about it without looking silly.
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Perhaps, but that would also make it that much easier for you to prove it so.
Is making IBM PC clones also illegal, but strangely allowed?
Are Amstrad CPC and/or Commodore C64 games also illegal?
Can I as actual programmer release my games to the public?
SavannahLion:
Driver-Man are you serious?
--- Quote ---I want to do exactly what you suggested, I want to read about it, but what, where? Show me.
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Is Google not in your favorites? At least show some capability of searching for some answers on your own.
However, if you need a starting point :dunno
--- Quote ---You are not really saying anything specific, you just keep insulting me for no reason and repeating YOUR OPINION, insisting that your opinion is better than my opinion, without any actual proof or reference to the facts and the real world.
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It's hardly opinion:
http://www.copyright.gov/
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/
That is fact.
Here is Nintendo's stance. Note that some of the information is true (ROMS), some is partially true (game copiers though it gets ugly in a hurry) and some is probably strictly opinion (lost jobs). Interestingly, Nintendo has carefully changed their wording regarding Emulators, probably in response to Sony vs Bleem! 1999(?) however, they did have a statement saying emulators are illegal after Coleco vs Atari 1982. So I'm not sure who tripped up on that.
This is opinion (not mine) and it is false:
"It's legal to download and use ROMS for 24 hours, after which those ROMS must be deleted."
Or something along those lines. If the site cites any code, it's probably section 107 of the copyright act (Fair Use). Nowhere in the U.S. copyright that I'm aware of has any sort of clause of this nature.
Here is a nice list of interesting lawsuits:
http://www.patentarcade.com/2009/06/updated-video-game-lawsuits.html
I suspect the list might be incomplete. There is a clarification court case defining exactly what can and can't be copied based on the durability of the media. Unfortunately, I can't, for the life of me, remember who was involved.
Please use Google for any further information or clarification.
Driver-Man:
None of that really applies here.
Q1.) If you buy X-in-1 in retail shop and get an invoice for it, then is it illegal to operate or re-sell that PCB? YES/NO
I'd say this has no longer to do with any copyrights, as once the item is on the market like this, and has been taxed by the government, it is the consumer rights that would protect buyer/seller/re-seller from any liability. Whether the factory can be brought to court and how that varies with state or country is not important here. -- Now, please point out what copyright notice is the one that applies here? Did we not conclude that even original PCBs came without any such proof of originality, so please tell us where do we find this relevant game copyright info, let us read what it says, ok?
Q2.) Was Ultracade found guilty? YES/NO
You are being theoretical and vague, I'm trying to be practical and specific. I think people understood I want to sell MAME and ROMs, while what I'm actually saying is that all that should be FREE, so no one would be selling it. I do not apply this to all games, especially not any new or young games, just the games that are no longer distributed and whose existence is therefore threatened to fall into oblivion and be forgotten - "abandonware".
SavannahLion:
--- Quote from: Driver-Man on September 11, 2010, 12:57:56 am ---None of that really applies here.
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You didn't even click on that first link did you?
--- Quote ---Q1.) If you buy X-in-1 in retail shop and get an invoice for it, then is it illegal to operate or re-sell that PCB? YES/NO
I'd say this has no longer to do with any copyrights, as once the item is on the market like this, and has been taxed by the government, it is the consumer rights that would protect buyer/seller/re-seller from any liability. Whether the factory can be brought to court and how that varies with state or country is not important here. -- Now, please point out what copyright notice is the one that applies here? Did we not conclude that even original PCBs came without any such proof of originality, so please tell us where do we find this relevant game copyright info, let us read what it says, ok?
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The fact that a particular PCB came without proof of originality has no bearing on the copyright of that game. Once again, taxation on a product has no bearing on the copyright legality of that product. Tax laws don't even address that (I could be wrong and I would take great delight if someone proves otherwise). I gave you the relevant copyright info. It's not my fault you're too lazy to Google for it.
As for liability on the buyer/seller/re-seller. Here, the answer is, it depends. An example would be Lik-Sang getting nailed to the wall for various copyright and patent infringements.
Anyhow, I'm done. If there is no effort shown on your part to partake in Google's mind expanding elixir then there should be no further effort on my part to point out things you should already be searching for. Such as Ultracade's lawsuit, which has some pretty in depth articles out there. Or you can ask Mr. Foley himself. I believe he visits the forum on occasion.