Basement Theater/Game Room [Finished!]

[shmokes]

Also, I need more money!

That's such a hilarious coincidence . . .

[DNA Dan]

Man you're already saying you need more money just to get to the unfinished basement stage? That doesn't sound so good.

I have seen people dig out their basements on their own, a bucket full of dirt at a time. However if time is the factor, then your best option is to plant a money tree and start watering it.

[javeryh]

Well, yeah - I could always use more money... who couldn't?  If we go forward, we will be pretty much depleting our savings since the goal is to do this without a loan so the mortgage stays the same.  There will be about a 12-18 month period where we will have to build up our cushion and just hope nothing goes seriously wrong financially during that time.  We started seriously saving about 3 years ago for this so I think we'd be able to build it back up reasonably quick.  I don't know - I'm very risk-averse and I'm very conservative when it comes to spending but what is the point of saving money if you don't ever enjoy it?

[ChadTower]

It's a reasonable sounding plan but I don't like that 18 month cushionless period.  An awful lot can go wrong in that span of time. 

[DNA Dan]

You know what too though - As the economy improves you're just going to be looking at more money down the road. So at some point you just have to take the risk if you really want it. I'm surprised the cost is that much. What work does that amount entail? (If you don't mind sharing.)

[ChadTower]

You know what too though - As the economy improves you're just going to be looking at more money down the road. So at some point you just have to take the risk if you really want it. I'm surprised the cost is that much. What work does that amount entail? (If you don't mind sharing.)

Yeah, if you mean that the cost is going to increase as the economy improves.  That will happen.  But this can also be done in stages so that it doesn't entirely destroy the cushion.  That will cost more in the long run but it will have a ton less risk of one injury destroying the whole plan.

[javeryh]

It's a reasonable sounding plan but I don't like that 18 month cushionless period.  An awful lot can go wrong in that span of time.

Agreed.  This is what makes me nuts.  I like having to not worry about finances and I live my life accordingly.  The only amount we owe anyone in the world is the mortgage on our house - cars are paid for, student loans are paid for, no credit card balance, etc.  I just hate having debt which is why we are trying to do this project from savings (no additional debt).

You know what too though - As the economy improves you're just going to be looking at more money down the road. So at some point you just have to take the risk if you really want it. I'm surprised the cost is that much. What work does that amount entail? (If you don't mind sharing.)

This is the problem... I feel like the job is just ever so slightly out of our reach unless we take a chance.  We have a meeting Saturday with the low bidder to go over the plans and see if there is anything we can cut to get within our budget.  There is some interior work going on in the existing house that we may be able to live without (windows in blank walls, moving the front closet, etc.).  If there is some savings there we will just hold off.

The job consists of adding a 15' x 23' structure off of the back of my house.  This will include a family room on the first floor, a master bathroom and master bathroom on the second floor and a full basement (and we are excavating the existing basement to match the grade of the new basement).  The existing upstairs bathroom is also being redone (it is being made smaller with the additional space becoming the hallway to get to the new area).  On the first floor we are also installing a new counter in the kitchen because part of the new room will be directly behind the existing sink (so we are turning that into a high counter/sitting area).  We are also knocking down one existing wall on the first floor (this has to be done or the overall design won't work). 

The pisser is that we have to demolish our detached garage and build an entirely new (smaller) structure to get under the town building coverage zoning regulations - the estimate on that alone is approximately $30,000 and we don't even want it.  That's about the amount we are over budget.  It's a lot of work.

[DNA Dan]

To be honest with that much work going on, you might be better off taking a loan. Look at this way, rates are the lowest they have been in decades. The extra money you'd pay for interest is a hedge against not having a savings cushion and taking on that added risk. There's something to be said for using the bank's money when it's cheap, and minimizing your risk by being flush with cash. Even if it was a small loan and you kept only half your savings, that would be better than wiping it completely out. I know you said you hate owing people money, but I guess you need to decide if that is better or worse than having no cash on hand.

Just because you have a loan, doesn't mean you can't pay the principle back early and opt-out of all that interest if the loan went to term. Put your tax return, any bonuses, pay raises, etc., on the loan. At least this is something that should APPRECIATE and not DEPRECIATE in value. If you were doing so to buy a new car, that would be a different story.

[ChadTower]

It's also worth considering that if you have to stretch so far it makes you nervous that you really can't afford it yet.  You're not done saving for it.

[eds1275]

Take it from me, a faceless stranger on the internet. You've got to enjoy your life. This is what you want. Go for it. I would go for the loan, or use half money half loan so you still have a bit of cushion. These low interest rates aren't going to last forever and the faster you do it the longer you and your family can enjoy it.

[lordnacho]

Don't deplete savings unless you have family to help out in an emergency.  How safe are your jobs/what fields are you in?
You have a daughter right(any others)?  Do they have a college fund actively being contributed to?

[javeryh]

No turning back.

[javeryh]

I need to seriously start thinking about the basement layout - I have to decide on sump pump placement by next week.

[HaRuMaN]

I think I just found Hoffa!   

[leapinlew]

Woohoo! Congrats dude. I just started moving on my basement. The difference between our projects is that I actually have a basement to start out with.

I'm building a 9 foot wide closet area for the arcade games to slide into. My thought is that I think I'd like them inset in the wall instead of up against it so it looks built in opposed to an after thought. The plus side is if I ever get rid of the arcade games, it converts to a closet and you can't have too many closets.

[ChadTower]

Heh, same here, I have a project thread going in Arcade Misc.  Big update coming soon when I have time.

[DaOld Man]

Looking good Jav! Was it a little nerve wrecking when the back hoe started digging right up against the house foundation?

[javeryh]

Thanks guys!  It has definitely been stressful - they just shut off the kitchen sink today and we didn't have laundry last week.  We lose our only bathroom in a few weeks too.  We have been saving for this project since 2008 and our lives have basically been on hold.  I haven't even built an arcade cabinet since 2009.  First order of business is building one for my son next summer once this project is completed!

This week they broke through the foundation wall and installed 2 steel beams in my existing basement.  This enabled them to remove all of the support columns.  Next week they are jack-hammering my existing basement floor to bring it down a few feet to be level with the excavated portion.  Then the foundation walls and slab go in and they are off to the races.  Since my property is so small they have had a hard time with logistics - for example, they can't get a dump truck into my back yard so they have to take each scoop of dirt to the front of the house where the truck is parked.  Stuff like that.  I am excited though.

[leapinlew]

Was it hard to get construction after the storm? You're in the northeast right? Seems like all those construction guys would have plenty of emergency repair work.

[ChadTower]

Wow, with a lot that close to everything else and that size, I'm surprised you got the permits.  Here the neighbors would have sued until we were all dead.

[javeryh]

Was it hard to get construction after the storm? You're in the northeast right? Seems like all those construction guys would have plenty of emergency repair work.

We were delayed by 2 weeks since we were without power.  The contractor had a few roofs to fix and he went do the shore to help out there as well but nothing major as far as delays.  So far so good with the contractor - he is excellent at communication and has been very careful about minimizing the disruption in the house.  That storm was awful and I got out lucky with no damage to my house (my fish died though).  A few houses down got flattened by a tree - the town was basically a warzone.

Wow, with a lot that close to everything else and that size, I'm surprised you got the permits.  Here the neighbors would have sued until we were all dead.

We had to apply for a variance and no one showed up at the meeting to protest.  My town allows 20% lot coverage and with a variance you can go up to 22%.  My lot is only 120' x 50' so you can't build anything too big.  We were at 18% before construction!  This is why we are turning our 2 car garage into a 1 car garage...

[DNA Dan]

Awesome to see you pulling the trigger on this! I am sure you'll be happy with it when it's completed. I'm jealous of all you guys with basement arcades. We can't build a basement because our water table is too high where we live.

[ChadTower]

We had to apply for a variance and no one showed up at the meeting to protest.  My town allows 20% lot coverage and with a variance you can go up to 22%.  My lot is only 120' x 50' so you can't build anything too big.  We were at 18% before construction!  This is why we are turning our 2 car garage into a 1 car garage...

Yeah, that's pretty common.  Notices of the meeting will go out, nobody shows up, and then once construction starts everybody has a beef. 

[javeryh]

Awesome to see you pulling the trigger on this! I am sure you'll be happy with it when it's completed. I'm jealous of all you guys with basement arcades. We can't build a basement because our water table is too high where we live.

Haha - I hope I'm happy with it.  I mean it seems like there will be enough space in the basement but I'm not totally sure until I'm standing in it I guess.  I've changed my thinking a bit on what I want to do.  I'm still thinking about a projector and a 120"+ screen with theater seats but I'm rethinking the need to cram a bar in there.  Maybe just a "nook" of some sort with a small sink and a mini fridge/microwave.  Of course I'm still putting about 4-5 arcade cabinets down there.

That stinks about your water table.  I'm a little concerned since our neighbors behind us are on higher ground so we get runoff.  The hole has had water in it since they dug it out.  We never really got water in our existing basement though (a trickle here and there but never anything more).  They are going to waterproof the new room and I'm getting 2 sump pumps and french drains around the perimeter which will hopefully protect us.

We had to apply for a variance and no one showed up at the meeting to protest.  My town allows 20% lot coverage and with a variance you can go up to 22%.  My lot is only 120' x 50' so you can't build anything too big.  We were at 18% before construction!  This is why we are turning our 2 car garage into a 1 car garage...

Yeah, that's pretty common.  Notices of the meeting will go out, nobody shows up, and then once construction starts everybody has a beef.

We know our neighbors got the notice (we had to send them out to anyone within 200 yards of my property) because they were asking us about what we were planning on doing.  I think the parking situation is what is already driving everyone nuts.  We can't park in our driveway and our neighbor's kid parks his stupid car in front of our house all the time.  If it wasn't for that we would be OK because 2 cars can fit in the street in front of the house.  Also, the trucks during the day must be a little annoying but I'm at work so I don't really know what is going on and they are always gone by the time I get home.

[Firebat138]

2 sump pumps is a great way to go...  We have the main one and then another one hooked to a battery and charger, so we have constant protection...  Great start...  cant wait to see the rest

[DNA Dan]

French drains around your foundation are an absolute must. Sounds like you are  in "good hands" with a contractor you are comfortable with. That's a very important and delicate place to be.

Regarding the bar, as long as they don't install a bunch of non-supporting walls and leave you with an open finished basement, you should be able to mock up some objects to see how tight it will be in there. Putting in cabinets or bartops once everything is completed is easy. Hell you could even build your own fake walls if you really want them down there for privacy. Personally, a nook with some scotch decanters and a wine area is all I would need. I just don't see the point in dragging food down there to cook and stuff unless it's a full on kitchen. Have you considered a dumb waiter? You could prep foods in your kitchen and send them down. The only things I could see being really useful is a small sink, an ice maker, beverage fridge and a microwave.

[ChadTower]

That's good advice.  Food prep is a completely different animal than a wet bar and minifridge.  It's also overkill unless your kitchen is super inconvenient from that location.  I have known several people who put in a second kitchen during a remodel and they all ended up using it pretty much for extra fridge storage.  The cabinets filled up with random crap and the ovens went unused for long enough that you couldn't use them anymore without a serious cleaning.

[leapinlew]

I've changed my thinking a bit on what I want to do.  I'm still thinking about a projector and a 120"+ screen with theater seats but I'm rethinking the need to cram a bar in there.  Maybe just a "nook" of some sort with a small sink and a mini fridge/microwave.  Of course I'm still putting about 4-5 arcade cabinets down there.

I am not fully decided, but with the space I have (approximately 15' x 17' room) I think I'm going to go with the 60" LCD. It'll still be possible for me to go 100" screen if I want, I don't want to have to always sit in the dark to get the best watching experience and 100" seems like it'll be too big and I'll have that first row in the theater effect.

[DNA Dan]

For movie watching I'd go with a panasonic VT50 plasma. They still make them in 65". I have an older version of this TV at a viewing distance of 14 feet and it still looks fantastic since the day I bought it.

[javeryh]

I agree with you guys about the kitchen.  The only food prep item I'll have is a microwave, a refrigerator and a sink.  No oven, no stovetop, etc.  I can always cook upstairs and bring it down.

I am not fully decided, but with the space I have (approximately 15' x 17' room) I think I'm going to go with the 60" LCD. It'll still be possible for me to go 100" screen if I want, I don't want to have to always sit in the dark to get the best watching experience and 100" seems like it'll be too big and I'll have that first row in the theater effect.

That's why I had the basement designed with no windows!  It will always be dark down there.  TVs are so cheap so I don't think you can go wrong even if you change your mind later on.

So check this out... my basement is a mess!

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not even sure I would put a microwave down there.  What would you heat up exactly that would be so urgent that you can't go upstairs?  I think I would use that space to put in one of those mini "vintage" popcorn poppers you can find in stores around this time.... much better for the theater effect. 

Glad to see things are finally moving btw.... too bad it's in the middle of frikkin winter, that's gonna suck!

[ChadTower]

Is a no windows basement up to code?  Here any "finished living space" has to have two potential exits.  Even if one is a tiny ass window that no reasonable adult could get out through.

[leapinlew]

Is a no windows basement up to code?  Here any "finished living space" has to have two potential exits.  Even if one is a tiny ass window that no reasonable adult could get out through.

If they force you to have 2 egress points, they'll have mandatory sizes for those egress points.

As for the windowless basement, we have a house built in the 80's that is a windowless basement. We wonder how they got away with it. I just figured Javery was putting his theater in a section of the basement without a window and there would be a window in another room.

[javeryh]

I should clarify - only the addition is completely windowless.  We have a landing 1/2 way up the staircase that actually has a full door that exits the house to the driveway.  Then there are 3 other (very small) windows in the existing area (transoms up near the ceiling).  It's all definitely to code - the town took 4 weeks to approve the plans plus we had to go to a hearing to get the variance.

[ChadTower]

If they force you to have 2 egress points, they'll have mandatory sizes for those egress points.

They do have mandatory sizes.  The secondary egress is surprisingly small, though, and I don't think they mandate the window type.  An adult would have trouble getting out of the basement windows in my house without ripping out the steel frame.  They tilt inwards and they don't tilt far enough for a fat person to get through.

[DaOld Man]

2 sump pumps is a great way to go...  We have the main one and then another one hooked to a battery and charger, so we have constant protection...

This is a wonderful idea!

I think I would use that space to put in one of those mini "vintage" popcorn poppers you can find in stores around this time.... much better for the theater effect. 

I was just about to say "Gotta have a microwave for popcorn" but then I see you post a much better idea.
But still a microwave would be nice for sandwiches and hot pockets.

[javeryh]

Popcorn machine is a must! 

This morning the forms for the footers were inspected (and passed) so they can begin pouring.  It is already looking much smaller than I thought which is what I assumed would be the case but it's still a bit of a bummer.  I don't want a big house (I actually prefer smaller cozier places and I don't want to maintain it especially once the kids are grown) but I do want a big basement for movies/sports/TV/games/beer.  I almost wish they could make the basement 3X as big as the addition above ground!

[ChadTower]

Just found this blog.  It's an interesting read. 

[leapinlew]

Popcorn machine is a must! 

Have fun with it. At least if you change your mind after using it, it's not an expensive thing. I was at a friends house with a popcorn maker. It's neat, till it has to be cleaned. His was sitting there, dirty and gross looking. I won't be getting a popcorn maker, but I still like the looks of them. I make popcorn on the stove and will just continue to do so. Will have a microwave and minifridge in the basement for the quick must-have snack.

[Howard_Casto]

They aren't as bad as that because they aren't dirty, they are merely coverd in oil.  Oil doesn't go bad, so it can look awful and still be sanitary.