Basement Theater/Game Room [Finished!]

[javeryh]

Basement is finished.  We decided on a movie theater in the main room instead of a full-blown game room/bar.  We have room for a few arcade cabinets and a place to play board games or do puzzles just outside the theater.  Just thought we'd get more use out of it this way.  We are very happy with the results and the "wow factor" is pretty neat when people see it for the first time. 













And here are some shots of the room right outside (the only other usable space - we have laundry room and a small storage closet down there too):







yeah, I need new DK side art - mine peeled off during "storage" in the garage.

If you are interested in seeing the theater get built step by step check out THIS thread over at AVS.

_____________________________________________________________

I am going to put an addition on my house and I am completely overwhelmed. I've spent hours drawing out the plans on paper (sketches) and I have a decent idea of what I want to do but I don't really know where to begin. Do I hire an architect? How do I get "professional looking" plans drawn up? How do I bid out the work? How do you budget? How do you know you aren't getting completely ripped off? How do you plan for the minutiae (lighting, cabling, outlets, etc)?

I am planning to add a 20'x25' 3-story addition to the back of my house. It will consist of a full basement, a living room on the first floor and a master bedroom/bathroom on the second floor.

I really need some advice from someone who has gone through the process before...

[DaOld Man]

James, it looks to me like you need to hire a contractor. You will spend more money that way but they will handle everything for you, just stay with them to make sure they do it like you want.
There are codes you have to go by, and you want it done right, since you have to plan on living with it forever.
A good contractor (experienced one that is), should know everything involved.
Good luck, and post some pics of this project as it comes along.

[ark_ader]

Simple, make a plan and stick to it.  Locate several contractors and tender it for bidding.  Do not get the lowest and make sure they are qualified.

It is important that you get 3rd party QA Inspector to check it over after you have completed.

Do not pay for the job all up front, and make them work harder for the final sum.

I prefer to screw contractors over in labor and material costs as work is scarce in my area, nothing feels better than enforcing a tight deadline, making them sweat and getting them to discount towards the end of the project -  but that is up to you. 

[pinballjim]

Nothing wrong with ark's advice.  If a contractor is doing well and has too much work, he'll tell you to go pound sand.  If he's desperate for any kind of inflow, you'll get good work cheap because he'll need to keep his men on the payroll.

Father in law was a contractor and inbetween jobs he was always looking for anything.  There's only so many times your men can mow your lawn and paint the house.  Couldn't afford NOT to pay the skilled labor or they'd go elsewhere.

[TOK]

James, it looks to me like you need to hire a contractor. You will spend more money that way but they will handle everything for you, just stay with them to make sure they do it like you want.
There are codes you have to go by, and you want it done right, since you have to plan on living with it forever.
A good contractor (experienced one that is), should know everything involved.
Good luck, and post some pics of this project as it comes along.

I totally agree with this. Since a bathroom is involved, really do some legwork before you hire a contractor.
If they half-ass your plumbing you will be suffering with it for way longer than it takes to find a good guy.

[drventure]

+1 on the plumbing. My parents recently (about 2 years ago) finished building a house they're retiring in.

They're in a small east texas area, and plumbing help was in short supply. They picked someone who was recommended but after the first day, my dad was thinking "these guys don't know what they're doing". He stuck with them though, and has has plumbing probs ever since.

He did the contracting, but did have help from a guy who served not as a full on contractor, but as an "advisor". Thing is my dad had plenty of time to devote to finding subcontractors to do all the work, and staying on top of them. If you don't have that kind of time, getting a contractor to handle all that would probably be well worth the money.

[javeryh]

Thanks guys.  I definitely plan on hiring a general contractor to oversee the project.  I just don't have the time for something like that. I am debating on whether or not to hire an architect.  I've heard that a good GC can draw up architectural plans but I'm wondering if there isn't some creative way to use the space or lay out the interior walls that I'm not thinking of. 

I'm sure a GC could take drawings I provide and make them look nice but I'd like to actually get some input on things that I might not be thinking about.  For example, the 20'x25' space on the second floor for the master bathroom and bath seems HUGE.  We are going to also add a nice walk-in closet but even after that it still seems like we have a lot of wasted space.  Maybe there is a way to knock down a few existing walls on the second floor and integrate it with the new space a little better (like maybe we can get an office or an additional bedroom or something).  I want to do this right but if I hire an architect and he doesn't add any value and then tries to charge me $3,000 or whatever I'm going to be annoyed.  Also, I don't have unlimited funds and this project already seems like it will be expensive.  I don't know. 

[mpm32]

Ha $3000? for an architect?  They usually charge between 10 and 15 % of the total cost of the job.  So if your addition is $150,000 you can expect to pay $15,000 to the architect.  And since he's getting a piece of the total, you can bet your $150,000 will turn into $200,000+.  Now he also project manages too so you get that for your money.

You need to find someone to draw you the plans, doesn't have to be an architect.

My friend has a business doing just that - he's not an architect.  You need someone like that.

[javeryh]

Why would it be a percentage of the total construction?  That makes no sense.  Does it somehow cost more to draw a regular toilet vs. a gold-plated one?  If I hire a GC I won't need the architect to do anything other than come up with the floor plan and then maybe tweak it once or twice after I give some feedback.

[shateredsoul]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you thinking of expanding?

Might help some people here give you advice on whether you need that much room instead of paying someone for that type of advice   

but yeah, I had no idea architects charged a percentage, but it seems like it has to do with them overseeing the project.  A 1 million $ project is going to require more overseeing and checking than a $200,000 project so it makes sense to me.

[mpm32]

I'm pretty sure most general contractors will be able to help you find someone or maybe even be able to draw the plans in house.  Call them first and pick their brains - when and if you can get them to show up. 

Tons of additions are done without an architect.

I would hire an architect if I bought a nice 10 acre plot and I wanted to put something unique on it.  But most likely I would look around online and find some plans of a house that's similar to the one I want, and buy them that way.

[javeryh]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you thinking of expanding?

Might help some people here give you advice on whether you need that much room instead of paying someone for that type of advice   

but yeah, I had no idea architects charged a percentage, but it seems like it has to do with them overseeing the project.  A 1 million $ project is going to require more overseeing and checking than a $200,000 project so it makes sense to me.

We are thinking of expanding because I love the neighborhood but my house is just too small.  The footprint is 25'x25' - we have one shower, two kids (hopefully more soon) and an unusable basement (6' ceilings).  I have been looking at real estate in town and it will cost a minimum of $200,000 to "upgrade" to a bigger house (that we'd probably have to completely redo over time).  I am hoping to get an addition for about 70% of that cost and since it will be built just for us it theoretically should be exactly what we want.

I'm pretty sure most general contractors will be able to help you find someone or maybe even be able to draw the plans in house.  Call them first and pick their brains - when and if you can get them to show up. 

Tons of additions are done without an architect.

I would hire an architect if I bought a nice 10 acre plot and I wanted to put something unique on it.  But most likely I would look around online and find some plans of a house that's similar to the one I want, and buy them that way.

I understand now if the architect was overseeing the project that it would cost more.  I didn't think of that and I don't think I'd need the architect to also be the GC but I also don't know anything about this process and after reading a bunch online it seems like hiring an architect might cost more up front but it could potentially save you thousands of dollars in the long run because the plans will be more specific and the costs will be easier to predict.

I want to do this right but I am super sensitive when it comes to spending money and I'm a little nervous.  I mean, on paper I know we can afford it but still - it is a LOT of money.  We are also having some built-ins... um, built-in near our front door (desk with some drawers and bookshelves) and the guy wants $8,000 just for that!!!  I'd do it myself but I don't have the time - it would probably take me a year and it would make my wife mental.  Why is everything so freaking expensive???

[shateredsoul]

why don't you test out your haggling with the "built-ins" guy? Ask him how many hours, check cost of materials, and try to get him down to somethings more reasonable. 

[mpm32]

built-in near our front door (desk with some drawers and bookshelves) and the guy wants $8,000 just for that!!!

I used to swing a hammer for a living.  For every job on my house, I had someone in and got estimates.  As I was looking at the astronomically high quotes, I'd say to myself, screw that, I can do it myself cheaper.  I did most of the improvements to my house myself.  When I bought the house, I stripped it the studs, moved doors, changed rooms around, built a bigger kitchen.  After that was done, my wife decided the house wasn't big enough.  So we decided to take off the second floor of the house, it was a cape, and go up with a full second floor and walk up attic. 

Now I could've done it myself but there was no way I'd be able to get the second floor off and covered in time to prevent damage to the first floor.  I did most of the demo of the second floor - saved there.

So I contracted out the shell of the house.  This way it would be covered and I did all the finish work a lot of the electrical, plumbing, contracted out sheetrocking , painting too (I hate doing that).  Doing it this way saved a ton of money and we were able to go with higher end materials and fixtures.

So maybe take a look at what you can do and are willing to do.  You can save a ton of cash.

[eds1275]

I did my own reno - not an addition, though I would do one myself if it were just a ground level thing, but not a 3 story. I too found that everything is so expensive.

I would add a small sitting room or area in the master bedroom if I were you; a space for yours & the wife's personal library, maybe a tv/movie player... it's nice to be able to have your own little hide away.

[javeryh]

So I talked to an architect yesterday - she is coming out to the house to take a look next Thursday.  We spoke for about a 1/2 hour and I think I'm going to use one (not necessarily her though).  She had a lot of good ideas and it gave me a level of comfort that the project will be done correctly.  She also said that her firm is handling three jobs right now that involve lowering the existing basement and they have structural engineers on staff which is perfect because that is what I want to do (for the basement theater and gameroom, of course!).

[javeryh]

I had the first architect out to the house yesterday.  It went OK.  She runs a very small operation but she seemed very confident and she had a few good ideas what to do with the space.  I also liked that she wasn't afraid to tell me my ideas were crazy or that we could make better use of the space.  She also told me that after seeing my plans (that I drew myself) that most architects would just say "yes we can do that" without putting any creative thought into the project which is something I definitely do not want to happen.  I am totally open to a crazy/unique layout as long as it works.  She also spent about 90 minutes at the house (for free) so I appreciated that as well.

One of my concerns after talking to her is that I am afraid that I'm not going to be able to get all of the space I want out of my basement.  We are planning to underpin it and dig down about 3-4 feet.  The architect said it was doable but she really didn't understand why I would want to - she just didn't seem to grasp the idea of a game room/bar/home theater.  She just thought the costs of doing something like that would not be worth it.  Her idea was to underpin 1/2 the existing basement and use the other 1/2 for storage and laundry with the assumption that underpinning 1/2 the basement would be less expensive than doing the whole thing.  I guess I'm open to it if the floor plan works.

Tomorrow morning we are meeting with another architect who should give us a different perspective.  This is the larger firm I mentioned that told me they have structural engineers on staff and they do underpinnings all the time (or at least have a bit of experience with it).  It is pretty exciting stuff and although this is a SLOW process at least I feel like I'm moving forward instead of just talking about it.

Oh yeah - I was told that the ballpark amount for the architect will be about 7% of the overall cost.  Not bad I guess.

[javeryh]

Ugh.  Just met with the second architect.  She had a lot of good ideas and seemed way more knowledgeable than the first one we had in but our hearts sank when at the end we were talking about costs and she said that "$100,000 is a ridiculously low number".  We didn't get into any more specifics but we were thinking $150,000 MAX for this project so if $100,000 is "ridiculously low" then I'm afraid of what she had in mind as the actual cost.  She was walking through the house and mentioned changing a LOT of the existing structure to make it flow and work with the addition we are proposing (including completely redoing our kitchen and relocating the downstairs bathroom) so maybe that is where a lot of the costs are in her head.

It seems crazy to me but I don't know anything.

 

[Hoopz]

Ugh.  Just met with the second architect.  She had a lot of good ideas and seemed way more knowledgeable than the first one we had in but our hearts sank when at the end we were talking about costs and she said that "$100,000 is a ridiculously low number".  We didn't get into any more specifics but we were thinking $150,000 MAX for this project so if $100,000 is "ridiculously low" then I'm afraid of what she had in mind as the actual cost.  She was walking through the house and mentioned changing a LOT of the existing structure to make it flow and work with the addition we are proposing (including completely redoing our kitchen and relocating the downstairs bathroom) so maybe that is where a lot of the costs are in her head.

It seems crazy to me but I don't know anything.

 

I'm sure those additional items that she wants to change in your existing home are the reason she said that 100k is too low.  I'd strongly suggest that you make a list of the things you want done and then have them quote them out individually.  If adding the new structure is X amount and the basement is Y, then you can prioritize them over changes to the existing structure.  Heck, a complete kitchen renovation can run 25-30k pretty quickly.  Moving a bathroom can get price too.  Unless those were part of your plan initially, I would take those suggestions with a grain of salt until you and your wife decide if those things are a priority.

[javeryh]

Ugh.  Just met with the second architect.  She had a lot of good ideas and seemed way more knowledgeable than the first one we had in but our hearts sank when at the end we were talking about costs and she said that "$100,000 is a ridiculously low number".  We didn't get into any more specifics but we were thinking $150,000 MAX for this project so if $100,000 is "ridiculously low" then I'm afraid of what she had in mind as the actual cost.  She was walking through the house and mentioned changing a LOT of the existing structure to make it flow and work with the addition we are proposing (including completely redoing our kitchen and relocating the downstairs bathroom) so maybe that is where a lot of the costs are in her head.

It seems crazy to me but I don't know anything.

 

I'm sure those additional items that she wants to change in your existing home are the reason she said that 100k is too low.  I'd strongly suggest that you make a list of the things you want done and then have them quote them out individually.  If adding the new structure is X amount and the basement is Y, then you can prioritize them over changes to the existing structure.  Heck, a complete kitchen renovation can run 25-30k pretty quickly.  Moving a bathroom can get price too.  Unless those were part of your plan initially, I would take those suggestions with a grain of salt until you and your wife decide if those things are a priority.

Thanks - I think you are right.  Her ideas sounded great but I think she had her head in the clouds - like this is what she would do if money didn't matter.  We were just thinking of the new structure plus basement - we hadn't considered any of that other stuff (although her ideas were VERY cool but every time she opened her mouth all I could think of was "that sounds expensive").  One of my concerns was that just tacking on a box to the back of the house wouldn't feel right and disrupt the "flow" of things and that is when she started getting nuts with all the revisions to the existing house.  Maybe we just do the addition and basement now and then in 5 or 10 years if we want to do some of that other stuff we can. 

The problem is that the next steps are going to cost money - if we want to move forward she is going to put together a "term sheet" listing out everything we want to accomplish with this project and once we sign off on that she will draw up the plans.  This all costs money obviously.

One thing I really liked about her was that she said the basement underpinning was really no big deal and that it actually wasn't that expensive - a couple thousand for the underpinning and a couple thousand for the steel support beams.  Digging it out and removing the dirt is no big deal because we will be getting a brand new basement for the addition and they will be digging out anyway.  She said when people just want to dig down and nothing else the removal of the dirt is VERY expensive because it basically has to be done completely by hand.  She really seemed to know what she was talking about here.

[Hoopz]

I understand your hesitancy about going to the next level.  I'd get that list from her and start marking stuff out that isn't necessary right now (kitchen, bathroom and all the other stuff that she'll come up with).

Just do the addition and basement to start.  Look at those numbers and see if it fits your goals. 

And be cautious of how quickly a few thousand here and a couple of thousand there adds up to a lot of money! 

[saint]

We nickle and dimed our basement renovation to the tune of an additional $20k, though we're very happy with the results. It can happen easily!

Devil's advocate question. $100k, $150k.... What about demolishing the current house and building from scratch?

[javeryh]

I understand your hesitancy about going to the next level.  I'd get that list from her and start marking stuff out that isn't necessary right now (kitchen, bathroom and all the other stuff that she'll come up with).

Just do the addition and basement to start.  Look at those numbers and see if it fits your goals. 

And be cautious of how quickly a few thousand here and a couple of thousand there adds up to a lot of money! 

I think this is going to be our approach.  We want to get a sense as to how much the basics would cost and then if we have a little more room in our budget we can add some stuff.  My wife had a good idea that we should ask the architect to design the space in such a way that we get the basement and addition now but still have the ability to do the other stuff 5 or 10 years down the road when we can hopefully afford it.

We nickle and dimed our basement renovation to the tune of an additional $20k, though we're very happy with the results. It can happen easily!

Devil's advocate question. $100k, $150k.... What about demolishing the current house and building from scratch?

I'm pretty sure that would cost about 1/2 a million at least.  I am right outside NYC and everything is unbelievably expensive!  That sure would be a fun project though - BYOH?   

[Dexter]

We built an extension onto our existing house last year. Did up a basic plan using google sketchup and got guys in the order the work needed to be done. We probably built it for about half the price a contractor would have charged even without an architect.

We were able to calculate the number of blocks needed, cable runs for the home cinema within the walls, position of internal walls to allow placement of existing appliances (i.e. chest freezer and tumble drier in new utility room), total area for planning laws, window and door sizes etc. Plus, unlike drawn plans, you can mess around with interal configurations for doors, walls, dividers, furniture and the like.

If you haven't used sketchup before, its dead handy to learn (and free for personal use)

[javeryh]

Wow that is sweet.  The finished product looks just like your sketch-up model!  Did you know how to use the program before this project?  Was it a lot of extra work managing the project yourself?  I work about 12 hours a day so I don't have the time other than the weekends. 

I've been trying to learn sketch-up but I am having a hard time since I have no experience with this stuff.  I found a free online floor planner thing but it sucks too.  I did manage to draw up what I think the finished basement area will be like but I have no idea how to divide up the space.  I want a theater area, small bar with a sink and refrigerator and of course, a place for some arcade machines.  Any ideas??

[Dexter]

Did you know how to use the program before this project?  

Nope. I dicked around with it a couple of times for a few minutes but the first project on it was the extension.

Was it a lot of extra work managing the project yourself?

Not at all. My father in law, whos a handyman, and the brickie we hired knew the process between them from start to finish. So it was just a matter of getting in various tradesmen directly. They knew most of the people we needed personally through working with them over the years. If you have one person in the building game you can trust you're half way there. We also saved on labour by me doing the donkey work in the evenings i.e. moving around blocks, sand etc.

I've been trying to learn sketch-up but I am having a hard time since I have no experience with this stuff.

I'd no experience either. It is genuinely simple to learn and intuitive to use.

I want a theater area, small bar with a sink and refrigerator and of course, a place for some arcade machines.  Any ideas??

Best advice I can give is plan for the future wrt wiring. In my extension the home cinema wiring runs through the walls around the room (terminating in wallplates where necessary). I put in an extra hdmi cable for a future flatscreen under the projector screen, some power cable in case I change the manual screen for a motorised one and a couple of spare phono outlets for a subwoofer out and spare/spdif return back to the amp. If you're planning on using a media player in the home cinema room some cat5 cable running to your main PCs location will be useful as well for HD playback, rather than using wireless networking.

Oh, and power sockets. Theres very little cost and effort in putting in extra outlets, and you'll use them at some stage.

[javeryh]

Thanks for the advice.  I messed around in sketchup and made a floor plan.  Now I need to divide it up in a way that works.  I want to have a dedicated theater space but not a dedicated room.  I am thinking about maybe installing a low wall to mark the theater space but I want to keep everything open so if you are hanging out near the bar or playing some arcade games you will still be able to see the TV.  I also want the ability to have more than 4 people watch a movie comfortably.  Also worth noting is that the shape of the new room is not set in stone - right now I have it as a box off the back of my house but I am open to some creativity there as well.

I'd love some suggestions!

Oh yeah - this is drawn to scale (for the most part).

[saint]

Are there any windows, or is it totally enclosed? Ambient light will effect suggestions on where to put things.

[javeryh]

Are there any windows, or is it totally enclosed? Ambient light will effect suggestions on where to put things.

There are no windows (or rather, there don't have to be).  This entire thing is my basement so the most I'd get would be some transoms.

[javeryh]

OK, I played around a bit.  This is a start I guess and kind of gives you an idea where I'm headed with this.  Getting everything to scale and making sure things fit is going to be tough.

Any thoughts?

[boykster]

What are your dimensions where you're thinking of putting the theater?  I ask because throw distance and viewing distance are important to think about when you're in the planning phase.  Its easy to run conduit for cables/power for a PJ during construction, and difficult to retro-fit afterwards. 

Looks like a fun project!  I'd also be curious how much space the rear counter/stools have - looks a bit tight, but you never know....

[javeryh]

What are your dimensions where you're thinking of putting the theater?  I ask because throw distance and viewing distance are important to think about when you're in the planning phase.  Its easy to run conduit for cables/power for a PJ during construction, and difficult to retro-fit afterwards.  

Looks like a fun project!  I'd also be curious how much space the rear counter/stools have - looks a bit tight, but you never know....

The inside dimensions of the theater are approximately 22' long by approximately 13.5' wide to give a sense of scale.  The distance from the wall behind the bar (on the left) to the back of the seats that are next to the theater is about 10'.

I want to run all the cables prior to drywall going in so I want to be sure I nail down the exact layout of where everything will go.  I'll have to wire the theater area for speakers and the projector and I think I want a small TV above the bar area and maybe the ability to put a jukebox on the bar that I can feed through the speakers in the rest of the room.

It is going to be tight to get everything in there but I'm hoping with a little creativity I can get it all to fit.

[eds1275]

Don't forget lots of power! I'd recomend running some 20 amp lines and wire it like a kitchen [seperate circuits for top and bottom plugs, with common ground and neutrals] if this isthe "toy room". Having plenty of power is better than  not enough, and sharing a ground will go a long way in reducing ground loops and other nonsense in your a/v equipment. Depending on how dirty your power is [and residential power can get pretty dirty before the power companies will agree it's not good enough for residential use] you may want to consider an in line isolation transformer, or having a second electrical sub panel installed with it's own ground. Then again, if you haven't been experiencing any issues beofre, this may be overkill as adding to the existing witing is unlikley to make anhything worse.

[pinballjim]

Ditch the home theater that you'll never use anyway and put pinball machines where that screen would be.

[javeryh]

Ditch the home theater that you'll never use anyway and put pinball machines where that screen would be.

I'm afraid pinball machines would get even less use that the movie screen (which will be primarily used for watching sports, playing video games and watching TV - movies are last on my list).  This is the reason I don't want a dedicate room for the theater - I want it to be open because when I have the guys over we will be watching sports - not movies.

[leapinlew]

Whats the property tax damage after this build javery?

[javeryh]

Whats the property tax damage after this build javery?

A lot I'm sure.  We pay around $9,000 a year as it is and we only have 0.14 acres and a 650sqft. footprint.

[Q*Bert_OP]

Whats the property tax damage after this build javery?

A lot I'm sure.  We pay around $9,000 a year as it is and we only have 0.14 acres and a 650sqft. footprint.

Wow...where do you live? That's insane!

[boykster]

Ditch the home theater that you'll never use anyway and put pinball machines where that screen would be.

You just like to brighten up threads with your unmatchable wisdom, don't you?

I use my home theater pretty much daily - I'm in it right now, watching The Dark Knight again in full 1080p on my 92" screen and surfing on my laptop. 

[boykster]

I agree with the comment on running lots of power - I ran 2 20amp dedicated circuits for the equipment, and a dedicated 15amp line for the projector.  I would also suggest running conduit from your head-end to the location of your projector for future-proofing.  HDMI is the current standard, but who knows what the future may hold.

Personally, I think the counter/seating behind the theater seating is going to be too tight based on your current drawing.  What size screen are you thinking of doing?  You might be able to move the primary seating forward a few feet.  I think my second row (where we sit most of the time) is 14' from the screen, and it's 92" diagonal - I'll measure this weekend if you're interested.  My front row is 8' or so from the screen and it's a tad close for me but still looks good.