Operation Wolf to multiplayer MAME: UPDATE!! side art!!

[Marsupial]

After much debate, considerations, research, I finally have an ongoing cab project - my first!

Instead of scratchbuilding, I will be altering an existing cab!
I got it for a fair price, delivered to my door.

Here's the beast: an Operation Wolf:


the counter tells me it did 40920 games... at 25 cents a game, that's still 10,000$!!!



I will alter the front section, the CP is too high. I will also make it 4-player, so likely change the coin door at the same time.
It came with the gun, a jamma connector, 2 power supplies, a power converter and the jamma connector for this cab.

The cab had been altered somewhere in its history - I think it used to be a Terminator 2. There are 2 generations of wires, and the mirror (for the screen) had been repositionned.

I tested the marquee neon fixture - working:



I also removed the power supply; will likely use them on another project.

I removed the gun

and the jamma connector - had to cut the coin door wires and speaker wires from the JAMMA connector, but there's not much wires for joysticks on it, and I plan on converting to MAME anyway.
I figured someone might use the machinegun and need the jamma connector, so I put those aside.

Finally, I removed the front glass (its mint!) and the mirror (I won't use it. At least, I don't think I will.)

Anyone have experience with similar cab?
Can I remove the front section to alter it, or will it completely destroy the cab's structural integrity?

I would hate to destroy the cab accidentally by taking off the front section. Its an "added" section, on what I believe is a generic cab. It doesn't even have sideart!

[Turnarcades]

Not the ideal cabinet for a conversion and be wary about doing 4-player conversions on 2-player machines as you have to think of balancing, overall proportions and finishing. Make sure you sell those reclaimed parts to recoup some cash and good luck with the conversion.

[Marsupial]

Thanks!
I don't expect to play 4-player very often, so players 3 and 4 will often be the toddlers - part of owning a cab is to play with the kids, at least for me.   

Nevertheless, this thing is OK large; I think it held a 25 inch screen.
I will still make the CP extend a bit on the sides.  I will however require 2 more coin slots. 

The front should be removable, but I will still add some reinforcements before doing so. I think its going to be easier then scratchbuilding anyway 

If anyone is interested in the submachinegun assembly, please PM me, its sitting on a shelf right now and I don't expect to use it.

[Marsupial]

Turnarcades you speak of wisdom.

I removed the front section tonight.



It almost look like the very classic arcades a la Pacman without the extra protrusion. I am tempted to make a straight-up square 2-player cab.
Plus, the other half mentionned 2 things.

1- the youngest one is too young to understand videogames yet.
2- we can always get another one later if we really want 4-players. 

Soooo.... I will likely do a 2-player CP that doesn't go out, put the monitor in the same position as it was without changing the angle as I originally planned, and do a repaint. I think all black with wooden CP could look great.

One advantage of this option is that there's less to purchase, I have most of what it needs and there's less work to be done.
However, I won't be able to play 4-player TMNT and this setup won't give room for trackball.

BUT, I will remember that she said we can have more
 

All joking aside, a few hours of work and the front was removed without any damage to the cab. I am really surprised of the look of it without that section, I wasn't expecting it to be so classic. 

[Turnarcades]

If anyone is interested in the submachinegun assembly, please PM me, its sitting on a shelf right now and I don't expect to use it.

Ebay it, and stick it in buy/sell/trade here at BYOAC.

Being your first build, it might be advisable to go with a 2-player design to cut your teeth. If you want 4-player functionality with it, add a couple of USB ports on the front and use joypads. It may seem simpler to do a conversion than to scratch build, but it can often be more complicated to modify and work designs so specifically to an existing machine not intended for such a control panel than it can be to actually scratch-build. A 2-player cabinet in this case could be quite good as you have adequate area to fit a trackball and spinner, particularly if you just slightly modify the front protrusion you've removed where the gun used to sit for a nice big, slanted control panel area.

[Marsupial]

The problem with that huge protrusion is that its way too tall; its intended to be used to have the gun at shoulder level.

I could remove about 4 inches of it before having to cut in the coin door, but even then the shape isn't great, its more of a shelve then a control pannel.

I think I'll stick to something in the lines of the older cabs a la Donkey Kong, Galaga, Pacman but with 2 players 6 buttons. There seems to be ennough room for that.

I'd go with something along those lines:



I'd close the opening and add a wider coin door, maybe look into changing the glass/bezel so its angled, and add a CP that doesn't go outside.  Building the CP really is the next thing on my todo list.



The machinegun is posted on a few forums including here, might stick it to ebay too.

[Turnarcades]

What you've pictured there was going to be by next suggestion; my previous one was based on not having seen a full-size picture of your complete cabinet. That will be an adequate solution and very easy to accomplish, and will easily fit a 2-player, 6-button layout - we do it with panels as small as 18" wide.

[Marsupial]

That's cool.

What about the screen.

The OW had the screen totally vertical, as to be able to shoot. (in fact, there was a mirror, but for the user, it was like the screen is vertical, 90 degrees from the ground)

I think for normal arcade, its best to have the screen slanted?

I wanted to start planing the CP tonight, but it'll have to wait for this week-end...

however I ordered a minipac keyboard encoder interface and started to decorate the arcade room.

[Marsupial]

My measurments indicates that the CP will be 23,5 inch wide by 9 inch deep.

here's the layout I was thinking of using.



I don't want admins buttons, but rather an admin "shift key" to change the functions on the already existing buttons. I'd like the machine to look like a genuine dedicated cab most of the time when in function, so the kids don't go into menus and all.

I might put the shift, and the P1/P2 out of the control pannel if it fits rather well when I have the whole setup including monitor. I would likely put them in the front, like the machine I pictured.

[Marsupial]

would that size control be too cramped to add a spinner in the middle?

[Turnarcades]

Adding a spinner in the middle is possible but hand positioning with a spinner for prolonged play needs to be omfortable, which with that width panel would be difficult for either left or right handed spinner use. I think your control panel mockup may be a little off scale, as a 2-player, 6-button layout pretty much fills our 21" wide upright machine's panel with a moderate space in the middle. As a guide, a standardly-spaced button/6 button combo will need 9" x 4" at minimum underneath the panel for mounting and space enough to wire up without fouling on anything.

If you are using a mini-pac and want to retain an original look without admin buttons, don't bother with a 'shift' button either. By default, P1 start is set as the shift button anyway and works well in that respect (holding it down doesn't accidentally 'press start', only when you release it).

[Marsupial]

well, I plan on using a key switch for the admin shift button 

I'll double check the measurments in photoshop before printing, but when I measured it was OK sized... unless I have to move stuff around?

I based my spacing on slagcoin's panel layout
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html

[Marsupial]

Prepared the main shape for the front and CP panels today



I'm very sure my image's measurments aren't off:



now I am thinking of recutting the sidepanel curve to allow more room for the arms. I could put the CP higher, but that would end up too high to be confortable, so I rather redo the sides to allow for more armspace.


However, that also means I need a new router bit to cut the t-moulding slot... is there anything we can get at local hardware stores that works for that?

[Turnarcades]

Must have just been a trick of the eye with the cp. Try not to put buttons too close to the edge to allow for overlaps and fixings.

With the sides, profiling them should be easy and all you need to create the slot is a 2mm or 1/8 inch slot cutting router bit. Failing this, if the part you cut is small you may be able to get awway with minor chiselling, a dremel cut or just cutting the T-moulding spine away and gluing in that section.

[Marsupial]

The image was definately smaller so its easier to get it wrong... but I rather doublemeasuring then scraping material, so thanks anyway

Unless I find a slot cutter routing bit at my hardware store, I think I'll try my hand with a dremel cutting wheel; the main idea is to bring the curve down to where the arms are for player comfort. There won't be too much to remove.

As for the top buttons (1P & 2P start, key) - they will likely go on the front pannel.  I think this will turn out like those retro classics from early 80s. lol.

[Marsupial]

I did cut the side pannels. I have about 3 foot long to do and didn't find a slot cutter; I tried with a dremel and its doable but long.

In the meanwhile, I stuck the front pannel to the cab, gives better rigidity and looks better. We see the end result coming to life.





did myself a template to follow.

however, I realized that when they assembled that cab, the 2 side panels are not identical. One side has the curve about 1/4 higher then the other. Not very visible like that, but when you base yourself on that and end up with something that's supposed to be equal and levelled, you have a bad surprise.
This said, I corrected it (the bottom part) and the CP will look nice.



the CP board isn't in place yet, I'll prepare it and pierce it before affixing it. But I also want to do a glass test before putting anything, just want to make sure I will still be able to remove it if required once the CP is in place.  I don't plan on putting the CP on hinges, is it really useful?

[Turnarcades]

A hinged control panel is definitely recommended, particularly on cab conversions where interior access is limited. Simply hinge the front edge and use roller catches on the underside; this will provide plenty of hold during gameplay and means you can just adjust the way the panel sits if your glass fitting is off or you want to conceal the mounting for the glass just under the rear of the control panel.

Oh, and a quick search for Canada turned up this:

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=971055&Ntt=971055&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

They also do the shank for the slot cutting disc on there. You may do better from US suppliers.

[Marsupial]

none of my local hardware stores have slot cutters, I would need to do special order - more delays then the 3 foot long slot I need to cut. lol.
There's a bigger hardware store on the way back from work that I will try this week.

If I go the hinged CP way, I have CP clips that I bought used. now that I have the front under construction, I see how I'll be doing it. I was affraid the front-positionned hinge would look weird, but I guess its no issue.


At this point my main concern is about the glass (and screen) - right now its perpendicular to the ground, but I feel it might be a bit too close to the players if I leave it as-is.

I could reput the mirror and place the screen going upward; maybe it would be interesting, but I feel the best course of action is to slant the monitor and position the glass accordingly.  I guess I need to measure the monitor outter size and look at the possibilities.

[Marsupial]

good news is - that bigger hardware store do have slot cutters.
Bad news is - they have 1/8, 1/16, 5/32 but not 5/64.

I gave a try with the 1/8 and it is definately too big. I guess I'll fill the slot with hot glue when putting the t-molding in place. (hot glue because it is generally not permanent)

I have the support for the pannel installed and only need to prepare the CP and hinges, I have started to cut the button holes on the CP. I don't want to bother the neighbours too late, so I'll continue tomorrow.

What size do we generally use for the joystick holes? I am using MDF 3/4".

[smalltownguy]

What size do we generally use for the joystick holes? I am using MDF 3/4".

29mm, or you can usually get away with an 1 1/8" bit.

[Marsupial]

I went with the 1"1/8 since its the same as the buttons and I already have it, plus it works great.
So I made the holes and populated the CP for testing.




but only 30 seconds of fake gameplay and my wrist were hurting... the angle was way too steep. So I had to adjust and the CP ends up half an inch higher in the front for more confort.


The hinges will be on back, with clips on front.

Next step is to find out how I'll make the glass hold in place, and fill the gap between the glass and CP.  Being that I want the CP hinged from that same area, I'll have to figure something out. You know, measure twice, cut once.?

[Turnarcades]

Hinging from the rear is a bad idea - think about it, the panel itself and controls will foul on the glass unless you have a gap, which will look crap. If the control panel slat is not to your liking, drop the rear rather than trying to fill and raise the front; you haven't fitted your glass yet so you're not stuck with anything yet. If it's the cabinet sides that's causing the discomfort, then you really should re-profile them now.

Fitting glass is easy - just make a couple of blocks a few mm behind the back edge of the lower marquee panel, then create a couple of grooved blocks to sit just below the control panel. If the control panel is front-hinged, you can drop the glass down, push it up between the marquee panel and blocks, then lift it up and sit it in the grooves. The control panel can then sit flat against it, with the roller catches set at the correct height to sit flat against it:

[Marsupial]

Why didn't I think of a grooved block?  I was trying to figure out a safe way to put it up, hold it in place, have something to hold.
The cabinet already have 90% coverage of edge blocks, I need to cover the area bellow where their original CP was, so a few inches = easy. The main issue was the lower holding point.

[Marsupial]

didn't have much time for the glass tonight, but I did install the hinges.





Next step is to work on the glass & monitor shelf.

[Turnarcades]

Good work!

[Marsupial]

Thanks!

I got lucky ennough that the parts I got when I was planing a cocktail cab do fit nicely on this conversion. The hinges are a perfect fit for the specific situation!

Today I added the clips and started some work on the glass holder.




it is quite tight between side panel and joystick on the left side:


That's one less variable in the big equation.

I am still not certain how I'll do the paint job, what art will happen.

At this point, I am tempted to keep the MDF in wood-coloration, just dyeing and sealing it.  I want to order a marquee, but until I am set on the cab paintjob, I can't settle on a final marquee.

Still... next step: monitor and glass.

[Marsupial]

I finally reinstalled the glass.

I am happy as this thing start to look like an arcade cab again.





next things on the list:
-coin door
-monitor shelve
-backpannel.


then I putty, prime, paint.

[Marsupial]

this is a step I am very happy of: I installed the coin door!

That's a coin door I got when I was planing a cocktail cab; but I feel its more in the classic direction then the upper/lower door that came with the Operation Wolf. I want to give a classy retro look to the cab.







I added a coin box, and am happy that the coins actually fall in it


I have about 500 japanese tokens planned for playing this. I feel that without inserting coins, you loose part of the arcade experience.

I am starting to think about just dyeing the MDF and painting the rest black, for a classy wooden look.

[Marsupial]

planning the monitor setup.

I still have the mirror from the original setup, its in great condition. I also have all it takes to attach it, angled, in the cab; as I didn't remove that yet.

The 21 inch CRT VGA monitor I want to use weights a ton.

I am starting to wonder if it would be better for me to place it up-facing and use the mirror in order to lower the center of gravity of the whole cab, or if I shouldn't bother with that and simply put the monitor slanted.

It seems most people don't do mirrored setup simply because they don't have one, so I am not certain if it is preffered or some silly idea...

What's the official word on that?

[Marsupial]

maybe I should ask in the monitor section...



(yeah, overtime at work means I still have time to think, or plan this thing out...)

[Subconscious]

*long time lurker, first time poster*
nice work so far. been keeping a close eye on your progress. i have the same cabinet and wanted to do a similar conversion to it. really looking forward to seeing how u decide to mount the screen. thats the main part that i havent come up with a plan for yet.

[deepblue]

Nice retrofit so far (side note - don't sell the Operation Wolf Gun, build another cab later and use it!).

I think if you get into mirrors and such that's a lot of screwing around, and I think (could be wrong) you'd need the games displayed in some sort of inverted fashion in order to reflect correctly on the mirror and have it be right side up and read left to right.

I have a (what feels like) 500lb Sony 27" CRT in my cab and it doesn't have any issues with center of gravity....but mine might be a bit wider than yours.

You would always put a counterweight in the bottom if it truly became an issue.

[Marsupial]

Thanks!

I am thinking for a future upgrade to add lightgun pistols - for a two-player setup - thus not caring very much about keeping the machinegun. Unless I get a second one?
Altough, if I keep it, it'll find its use someday for sure.

From what I understand, the mirror has an effect to keep the monitor virtually farther from the player, which isn't a bad thing considering the shape of this specific cabinet with the monitor somewhat too close. If I end up playing gunshooting games, that'll be useful as well.

Being that I didn't hear any "official" word on mirror VS no mirror, and that posts here about mirrored setup are few and far between, I likely will give it a try. Afterall, the setup is 80% done by default, while I'll have more alterations for adding a shelve. (All I need is a set of brackets and I can give the mirrored setup a try)

The image would need to be inverted, but Mala and Mame can take care of that as far as I know. (But there's still invertion issues in windows...)

Subconscious, you really have the same cab? with gun and all?
you NEED to post pictures. Comparing progress can only be fun!!  


As far as center of gravity goes, can you do some shaking test on your cab deepblue, please? I have toddlers that might try to climb on the cab, as they do on everything else in the house. But as you said, adding counterweight is doable. But I'd rather have something I can carry around then a 2-ton cabinet in the end.  

I am hoping to install the monitor before the end of this week-end, so I can work on the body job next week and have the cabinet in the basement next week-end. Hopefully.

[Subconscious]

Subconscious, you really have the same cab? with gun and all?
you NEED to post pictures. Comparing progress can only be fun!!  

well mine has everything but the game never fires up. not even sure if the gun works but the guy i got it from said it does. i have started doing anything to it yet as im in the process of finishing the room its going in. once thats done im gonna get started on it. i'll definitely post pics and progress on it when i do.

[deepblue]

I've given it a shake test - it barely even moves. I've got a 20 month old that will likely jump all over it.

What I may do in order to be paranoia safe is anchor the back of it to the wall with some metal wire.

[Marsupial]

Subconscious if your gun doesn't work, you know where to get another one. Altough I don't know if mine works, you still have more odds to make 1 work if you have two!  

Deepblue, thanks for the info.


Sadly, weather's not been nice at all this week, work required overtime, progress has been very slow. I started to look into putting brackets for the monitor, but that's about it. Won't be complete today.

[Marsupial]

I openned up the 21" IBM VGA CRT monitor that is destinned to be placed inside this cab, and I have to say, I don't know how I'd go about making efficient brackets for that, short of using the original plastic bezel to hold the monitor in place.
That, plus the fact that its deep ennough that it almost touch the ground when placed facing up, made that I will skip my turn trying to use a mirrored setup this time.
If I would have installed a 19inch arcade monitor in there, it would have been a totally different story.

So, I decided to give a try to the slanted back variant a la nintendo cab.

The monitor tube is so long that I have little options on how to place it. Slanted to be comfortable to see leads to having the back of the monitor getting out from the backpannel!!









Right now its shelved and straped in place.



I will still give a try at making the monitor completely inside the top, perpendicular to ground (parallel to glass) and inserted by the front (with glass off) as I feel it will look better, be less hassle with the packpanel, and more playable by the younglings - they are supposed to be playing this thing anyway.  

[Marsupial]

I think this is it!





gameplay seems good (I say seems, being that I didn't wire the joysticks yet and only played with a netbook on the CP...)


The monitor doesn't feel that close to the players, its in fact even better then the angled placement. Plus, the toddlers can see the image. And if I decide to go with 2 pistols, this cab can take them (I think)
I am happy I decided to try it out, I don't know why I felt I would hate how close it ends up being, its the best placement I've tried.

I also can close the backpanel, which is a plus. The monitor takes most of the upper part of the cab. I don't think I could fit anything bigger then this 21" CRT.
BTW, IBM used sony trinitron tubes. kinda cool.

As far as center of gravity goes, with the monitor up top, you can shake the cab more easily, but good luck having it tip over. Its impossible to tip from the front, and sideways is hard.
And I haven't placed the computer in the bottom yet.

Question: Should I put the P1&P2 start buttons on the front pannel, or in the middle of the CP?

[Marsupial]

started to paint (sorry no pictures)

The paint job is taking me a lot more time (and spray paint) then I anticipated. I'm going in very thin layer - thinner then I do when painting smaller things. its pretty much covered at this point, but needs more thickness... I'm going for Krylon satin black, once done I'll likely add some spray clearcoat.

[Marsupial]

thanks a lot Turnarcades for the hints and tips, I am very happy I decided to go with a hinged CP afterall. Really makes my life easier. You can't know until you actually have to work with it.

Anyway, I had to alter the machine frame while brigning it downstairs to the game room. There USED to be a step, some kind of pedestal. But its in the way with how my staircase is done, so the step was jigsawed in an improvised fashion. All is OK, the metal plate that was destined as the step protection is now a nice kickplate.

in the meantime, ses this: ALMOST like the original gun  


most recent pictures:





I am sloooooowwwllly looking for sideart and marquee. Until I decide what sideart I want, I'm not rushing for new marquee.