Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: Air Hockey Build  (Read 26919 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2010, 07:37:07 pm »
I don't have my cost spreadsheet here but can update tomorrow.  The biggest expense could be the blower, a new high-end one is $300+.  Since I got a sweet deal on one, that seriously reduces my costs.  Otherwise, a few sheets of ply, a sheet of formica, something for legs etc.  You could always do some sort of manual scoring.  The circuit I am building was not too expensive; couple bucks for some chips (and sockets), the wire, resistors and caps I already have.  I'll post what I have so far tomorrow.

Shuffleboard is also a serious contended on my to-do list.  I don't have the tools though (probably need planer, jointer, etc).  That much maple (or whatever) would probably be somewhat costly too.  Though I imagine it to be much cheaper overall than buying a table.  Plus, the fun is in the building.  I've done a bit of research on this already...just need time, money, tools, approval, etc, etc

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2010, 10:41:13 am »
As promised, my pricing estimate:

Qty
         
Unit
Price
Total
Price
Size
                       
Description
                                                                                 
160604’x8’white laminate
166?Epoxy (hold laminate down)
135353/4”x4’x8’sheet wood, OSG, playing surface, covered w/ laminate
135353/4”x4’x8’sheet wood, OSG, visible sides (skirt)
125253/4”x4’x8’sheet wood (bottom of plenum)
125253/4”x4’x8’sheet wood, cut supports from this
115154’x8’Peg Board (used only as a drilling guide)
1886’ 4”x4”Legs, 4 @ ~15”ea
2015”x4’1/4”Steel, goal tops
20?sheet metal, to be rounded, encourage puck down in goal, rather than bounce out
38243/4”x8’angle aluminum (playfield edge)
155--J-Roller, for applying laminate
41248?Leg Levellers (optional)
10.450.454’ x 1/4”diamdowel, drive drill bit thru centre, helps drill many holes
35151/16”drill bits, expecting to break a lot of these
1350350300+ CFMBlower
248Mallets
2243 1/4”Pucks
                                                                                 
Total Project Cost $663.45



Note however, that the blower is about half the cost above.  Mine was much cheaper, which makes this endeavour affordable and worthwhile.

Note also that I am guessing at pricing here.  Some of the prices are ballpark/memory based on HomeDespot canadian pricing, others are wild guesses.  I've attached the original spreadsheet so you can plug in your own numbers.

The scoring circuitry is not included in the above table, but the costs there are quite minimal.  Check out digikey, mouser, sayal, etc for those parts.


ragnar - have you priced out wood for a shuffleboard deck?  I'm curious what that would cost.  There are many examples of such builds on the web, such as this one.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 11:09:54 am by ids »

ragnar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2010, 08:32:04 pm »
Just noticed your shuffleboard question now ....

I started a shuffleboard thread but it is pretty much dead:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=106578.0

If I did it, I'd probably go well over 12'.  Probably close to 20'.  As for pricing, I don't know.  It owuldn't be cheap though.  The way I estiamte, I'd expect $700 and up spending $1400.  There are always things that are missed like L-brackets when estimating.

The max length is 21'.  That is "competition" length.  They start at 9' in length.  So anywhere in between is acceptable for the casual player.  If one were to do a 12' table, you could get some 4x12 oak plywood to make the table.  The surface needs to be seemless which is the real trick.  The best method I have seen is to use hard wood flooring on top.

Anyways, if I were to guess, a 16' table would cost around $1000.  All that wood adds up in cost.  I should estimate it though.  If I do thoguh, I might end up spening money though.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 08:34:52 pm by ragnar »
MY FIRST BUILD:

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2010, 08:53:10 pm »
ragnar - not sure how i missed your thread.  Really appreciate the cost estimates on shuffleboard, and your other info.  It's a fair bit more than I thought.  That may drop it a few notches on my list of to-do's.  I'm having enough trouble getting the air-hockey started (putting in a new kitchen right now).  Seems like so many projects here are delayed due to home remo's  :(

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Air Hockey Build
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2012, 09:52:45 pm »
Finally got started after a much greater delay than I expected.  The first thing I decided on was to drill 1/4" holes into 3/4" plywood using a sheet of pegboard as a template.  This seemed to solve a few issues for me.  One was airflow.  I could not imagine 1/16 or 1/32" holes passing a lot of air through so much wood (which I think is needed for support).  Another, given the first as an objective, was that the pegboard act as a guide; using standard "twist bit" drill bits, they found their way to the holes.  The last is drilling the final, small (1/16 or 1/32) holes into the final surface material (future benefit, i hope).  I had previously attempted this using 1/4" dowelling cut to length with a hole drilled in the centre.  This was to be a guide, with the pegboard, to ensure the small holes were drilled to 1" centres.  It quickly became apparent that the dowelling did not always fit well.  The 1/4" holes in the pegboard were a bit rough.  So, using this pegboard as a template for drilling 1/4" holes, I am assuming said holes will be clean 1/4" (or slightly greater) when the time comes to apply the dowelling again.  So, after drilling about 4300 holes, I get to start all over when I decide on the final surface material (either whiteboard, aluminum composite panel, or countertop laminate).

Early pic of the pegboard sitting on plywood, and a pic from underneath after all the drilling:

dandare

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2012, 09:24:41 am »
This is a fantastic project man and that is a lot of holes to drill!

I found it laborious drilling out a 2 player cp!

keep the good work coming.  :applaud:

Unstupid

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2012, 12:51:32 pm »
Those 1/4" holes are way too big... You are going to need huge blowers to float the puck. 

Nephasth

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2012, 12:59:12 pm »
Those 1/4" holes are way too big... You are going to need huge blowers to float the puck. 

The last is drilling the final, small (1/16 or 1/32) holes into the final surface material (future benefit, i hope). 

Unstupid

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2012, 01:14:18 pm »
oops my bad never mind...

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2012, 02:22:42 pm »
fwiw, a cut away view showing how the 1/4" holes will feed the playing surface.  Diagram uses 1/32" holes in the playing surface, which is a 3mm aluminum composite panel.  Holes are 1" on centre.

Another benefit of the 1/4" holes is that the surface does not have to align perfectly - there's quite a bit of elbow room for error here.

EightBySix

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 523
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2012, 02:37:23 pm »
Love this build!

You have to promise to put little metal strips on the edges so that it makes a musical ping when the puck hits the sides  :cheers:

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2012, 02:58:57 pm »
Thanks.


The plan is to have angle aluminum strips around the edges - so there will be music  ;D

There is a sketchup rendering near the end of the previous page if you want a quick visual.  Also, I don't know that wood could take the beating year after year, nor do I think it would bounce as well, so metal is a must, imho.  Question is - how high (to keep wobbly pucks in play)?  I've been toying with the idea of 3/4" to 1".

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2012, 09:58:17 pm »
Flipped it over and ran the random orbital sander over it to clean up all the tear-out.  In the foreground, you might be able to make out bits of dowelling I used to keep the pegboard aligned with the plywood.  Given the generous tolerances allowed, this was easier than using clamps.

Now, I need to decide what to use for the surface and start drilling all over again.  I've seen a wide range of prices for whiteboard, and different materials.  I'm not sure how much abuse from the paddle/mallet a melamine whiteboard could take.  OTOH, I have seen laminate countertops take serious abuse, but I haven't seen any in the big box stores which are smooth - they all seem to have a texture.  Aluminum composite panel comes in various finishes and prices.  I'm concerned about drilling, however.  Any metal splinters which stick up from the surface would have to be dealt with, and that probably means damaging the painted surface with sandpaper or something like that.

Opinions and advice welcomed.

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2012, 04:02:33 pm »
Ordered laminate sample, colour http://www.arborite.com/en/Products/Atlantic-Blue - the "gloss" finish looks fairly smooth, so this might be a viable option.

Heading over to http://www.lairdplastics.com now to check out the ACP.  Anyone know how to get clean holes drilling into this stuff?

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2012, 09:00:33 pm »
The aluminum composite panel sample I walked out of Laird with convinces me this is the right material.  And it's big enough that I can experiment with drilling.  I just need the means of transporting a 4'x8' sheet and I think this one is a go.

yaksplat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 551
    • Random Projects
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2012, 09:48:45 am »
Which aluminum composite are you looking at?  Some of them look like the layer of aluminum is quite thin.  I'd worry that in the long term, the aluminum surface could wear away.
Check out my current 3 machine build:
http://yaksplat.wordpress.com

Custom Control Panels: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=121245

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2012, 03:02:00 pm »
I'm looking to purchase "e-panel" - info here: http://www.graphicdisplayusa.com/e-panel/substrate/  It has .008" of aluminum.

Down side - it's made by 8 year olds using lead, melamine, aluminum dust, that sort of thing...guess where

Plus side - turns out .008" is actually a fair bit of aluminum.  I'm sure one could wear through the coating (not sure if that's paint or melamine  ;D ) but as thin as .008 sounds, i think it would take some time to wear through it with plastic air-hockey paddles -- if at all.  This stuff is fairly stiff as well, so it should easily tolerate imperfections in the sheet of plywood it will rest upon.  In fact, I'm wondering if that plywood is needed at all.  I'll have a better idea how much it flexes once I get the full sheet.

In an attempt to show the profile of metal/plastic, I tried taking crappy cell phone pics and succeeded -- crappy pics -- so no images at the moment.  I also looked at better stuff, "Dibond," which uses .012" of aluminum, and don't think paying twice as much is worth the trouble.  In time, the paint may wear, which would not be pretty, but I doubt I'll ever get much wear on the aluminum itself.  In fact, i doubt there will be much action on this when complete, so maybe no wear at all  :(

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2012, 07:28:00 pm »
I've had the sheet of aluminum composite panel (ACP) for a bit now.  I love this stuff for so many reasons and, if possible, would like this to be the final surface material.  But I am a bit concerned.  Using smallish samples of both the ACP and laminate, I have found disparaging results.  With ACP, drilling leaves something of a halo (bump) around the hole - using only a 1/32nd bit.   However, drilling laminate does not - it's the perfect drill hole.  These comments are ignoring the underside, which do not require a smooth surface, just air-flow.  Both are fine in that regard.  I am eager to get started on the drilling (oh joy, only ~4220 holes) but would prefer the effort to go towards a good end result.  I am reaching out here hoping someone can provide some info on how to clean up (level off) the ACP without damaging the pre-fab surface.  I've tried a variety of methods, with no luck to date :(.  I am starting to think I should just buy a sheet of laminate to put atop the ACP and drill both simultaneously as a contingency.  Getting sheet goods home is not easy, and adding a redundant sheet of material to this project is not without unwanted cost, but I find myself coming to this....

also, if there are any physics majors here, airflow: ~4220 holes @ 1.32nd inch -- despite what the total area is, does one need greater pressure to make it happen with small holes?  My squirrel cage blower seems great at airflow but a fair bit less so at dealing with pressure - is that ok?

Any opinion, advice, experience, anecdote, encouragement, disparagement, insult, etc is very welcome at this juncture.

stuck

need help

thanks

Nephasth

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2012, 07:34:35 pm »
Is this "bump" created from the downward pressure of the bit while the drill bit is cutting?

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2012, 07:41:18 pm »
Yes, I am that weak :) need assistance with drilling $2/hour - any takers :)

EDIT: duno what i was thinking when I wrote that.

On the bottom side there is some dimple like thing going on from the downward pressure.  On the top - not sure how to describe it, as its very difficult to see clearly - since it's a 1/32" hole - but I can definitely feel it.  I also tried clamping some wood to the bottom to try to stop tear-out, as one does when drilling wood, but it made no difference - still a dimple.  Maybe I need to clamp metal to metal?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 05:37:28 pm by ids »

Nephasth

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2012, 08:12:31 pm »
If you can find one to borrow, try using a magnetic drill press. Put the ACP on a steel top table and put an old t-shirt or something under the drill press. You should be able to drill the holes with lighter, more even pressure, which might keep those bumps from happening...

crashwg

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3070
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2012, 10:00:00 pm »
Maybe a brad point bit would work?
If there's bees in the trap I'm catching em
By the thorax and abdomen
And sanding the stingers down to a rough quill
Then I dip em in ink, and I scribble a bit
But if it they wriggle then I tickle em until they hold still
Lemme say it again
In my land of pretend
I use bees as a motherf_kin' pen

yaksplat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 551
    • Random Projects
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2012, 10:49:44 pm »
Look into using a tapered reamer instead of a drill bit.
Check out my current 3 machine build:
http://yaksplat.wordpress.com

Custom Control Panels: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=121245

selfie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2012, 11:27:18 pm »
You could try pressing the dimple back down with a nail punch, 4 thousand times

Unstupid

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2012, 01:40:09 am »
You need to drill it with a cnc router.  Big difference when the bit it spinning at 500 rpm vs 24,000 rpm!

yaksplat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 551
    • Random Projects
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2012, 09:06:33 am »
Actually, using a plunge router may not be a bad idea.  Problem is cooling and lubricating the bit.  At high speeds the aluminum tends to get 'gummy'.
Check out my current 3 machine build:
http://yaksplat.wordpress.com

Custom Control Panels: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=121245

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2012, 05:32:56 pm »
Thanks for all the replies!

1) Tapered reamer - I think such a thing just might do the trick.  Given the taper, unless I can find one with very particular sizing, i suppose this would not replace my drill bit, but rather be applied after the hole is drilled in order to clean up?  The panel itself is about 3mm thick - I think a tapered bit would leave much too big an opening if drilled all the way through.  Doing another pass after drilling ...that would be quite a bit of work, but what the hell, I've come this far....

2) Brad point bits - this also looks like a good solution - my preliminary search has so far come up short on 1/32" brad points, but I'll keep looking

3) Nail punch - sounds like as much work as #1 above.  Also, since it is very difficult to see what it is actually causing the...whatever I am feeling, it's hard to say if this would work - but I will give it a try.  I have a small sample piece I've been making a mess of, so its easy to try various options.

4) CNC - yes, as soon as I build my own CNC I'll....  ;D  sorry.  Actually, I think this would be a great option, but don't have access to one.  I imagine it'd be quite expensive to get it done professionally, and a bit of a pain as I do not have a vehicle to move it around.  (Had to rent a truck to get it home.)  As for RPM's, I've tried a dremel clone on highest speed with the same results.

5) Plunge router - I do have one of these.  I've sort of discounted this idea in the past because it seemed like a lot of work to line it up just right, that many times, and plunge.  Perhaps I shall reconsider - if I can find a way to get such a small drill bit mounted into it.  And I guess I need to go slow to keep things cool - thanks for that bit of wisdom.  When I did the wood support piece I just blasted away as quick as I could - that drill bit probably got very hot after 30mins.

I had also considered just leaving it - maybe with use it'll wear itself down.  Or maybe with use tiny fragments of aluminum will get knocked loose and begin to scratch the hell out the very surface I am trying to protect.  Too bad there's no "BYOAHT" site to learn from :(

thanks

selfie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2012, 05:55:08 pm »
I should have thought of this before :dizzy: check the back side of the drill hole.

The ACP I work with generally has a 0.15mm skin thickness for the alloy layers. What your dimpling will be cause by is the flutes of the drill bit lifting the skin as they are removing the material. When I cut ACP on my CNC router I use an up spiral cutter, the flutes lift the material out of the groove like a normal drill bit, with the good side of the material down in your case you should be drilling from the back to the front so the flutes are pulling the alloy skin in to the polyethylene core of the ACP.

Finding a drill bit to fit the collet of your plunge router should not be an issue, you might just need to head to a specialists machine tool supplier, lathes and mills etc.

I am moving the machine today but if I can get it up and running I'll do a few tests on my CNC to see if plunge rate and RPM have any effect.

crashwg

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3070
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2012, 12:23:54 am »
McMaster-Carr has a "wire gauge" #60 brad point bit.  #60 is .04 whereas 1/32" is .03125. Their catalog number is 2828A899.

It is however, $14.53 and if you add to that the $6-10 or so they'd charge in shipping that's one expensive drill bit.  Being as small as it is you'd also want to buy a few because you're bound to break 'em.
If there's bees in the trap I'm catching em
By the thorax and abdomen
And sanding the stingers down to a rough quill
Then I dip em in ink, and I scribble a bit
But if it they wriggle then I tickle em until they hold still
Lemme say it again
In my land of pretend
I use bees as a motherf_kin' pen

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2012, 12:36:06 am »
Don't you people sleep?

Thanks for the info crashwg - while the bit is expensive, i think I may not have a lot of options.  The pile of 1/32 drill bits I've invested in is nothing, in relative comparison -  and if they cant be used for this, so be it.  I'll check into it after the sun rises, and see how much more it costs to ship that stuff to Canada.

Someone distract the s/o while I place an order :)

And selfie - thanks for the info and offer to look into the CNC thing.  I'm humbled by this.  You've inspired me to do some googling for spiral cutter bits but so far I could not find any at 1/32.

I hope I am not unnecessarily limiting my options by sticking to the 1/32 thing, but from what I can tell, thats what the serious machines use.  I dont know how air can be pushed through such a small hole but... 

unclet

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3553
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2012, 08:57:38 pm »
I have a Dynamo arcade air hockey table.  I found some measurements pictures which might help you out.  

Notice how the "air chamber" cavity gets smaller the father is gets away from the blower position.  I think this is how it makes sure the little holes on the outer edges have enough pressure.

I do not even remembering making these measurements so it must have been a very long time ago.   I do not even know where the keys are to access the table anymore either   :dizzy:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 08:01:25 am by unclet »

kahlid74

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1361
  • Gaming for a better future!
    • GamersAnon
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2012, 09:06:53 am »
I have a Dynamo arcade air hockey table.  I found some measurements pictures which might help you out.  

Notice how the "air chamber" cavity gets smaller the father is gets away from the blower position.  I think this is how it makes sure the little holes on the outer edges have enough pressure.

I do not even remembering making these measurements so it must have been a very long time ago.   I do not even know where the keys are to access the table anymore either   :dizzy:


These pictures should be archived or something for anyone else that comes looking to build an air hockey table.  Great reference material.

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2012, 04:24:16 pm »
I have a Dynamo arcade air hockey table...

Thank you very much for the info - invaluable!  But, perhaps you'd like to trade up your used table for some brand new ACP?  It still has the protective plastic on both sides!  Since I've already bought paddles and pucks, you can keep those.   ;D

I'll update my sketch-up model to take your measurements into account.  If there's interest, I can post here when done.  Some reading I've done recently made it clear to me why the side rails are shaped the way they are - to discourage people from resting drinks there.  That would invariably end up with a spill and potentially damage your table.  I am now thinking of doing something along these lines for the same reason.

No progress (but I did finish my new drill press table and clean up the shop).  Ready to get back to it, but need to find the right bit.  I've discovered a lie in a prior post - I have not tried this with a dremel-clone.  I was setting up to try this (again?) yesterday, during which time I recalled the reason it was not done before.  The chuck locking mechanism is busted on that POS, so I cannot change bits.  (You get what you pay for.)  I also cannot find something to hold such a small bit, but that's another problem altogether, for which I may have ad-libbed a solution (e.g. wrap base with tape or something).

thatpurplestuff

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 547
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2012, 05:17:09 pm »
unclet once again comes through with crucial measurements/information... you're the man, man!  I wouldn't have been able to build my Skeeball machine at all if you hadn't taken the time to measure your machine... thanks again!

ids- been lurking and watching this thread for a while... can't wait to see what you come up with!

So once again, we find that evil of the past seeps into the present like salad dressing through cheap wax paper, mixing memory and desire.

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2012, 09:46:10 pm »
Thanks thatpurplestuff.  I've got all that skeeball stuff bookmarked....one of these days, just maybe.....

So, for the cost of all the crappy dremel clones that have died on me, I picked up the real deal, a dremel 4000, and a collet to hold 1/32".  I believe it to be overpriced, but I hope the quality makes up for it.  I played around with it a (starting to run out of room on my little sample piece of ACP).  It seems if I'm really steady, which is to say, moderately so (I'm no surgeon) while running the thing full tilt (35,000 rpm) the hole is fairly clean.  The steadier I am, the cleaner the hole is, to the point where I believe really steady will provide a near perfect or good enough hole.  Now, if i can just do this repeatedly a few thousand times....  I know dremel has a plunge base accessory.  I'll mull that one over for a bit.  I'm curious as to just how steady that one is vs these old hands.

Now I'm wondering how many holes before the bit is dull and needs to be replaced?  Time will tell...

fwiw, found this "breakdown" pic to be interesting as well: http://www.valley-dynamoparts.com/docs/AH_2010_Breakdown.pdf

selfie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #75 on: May 14, 2012, 10:29:31 pm »
Sorry its taken a while to get back to you. Who'd a thunk moving a 10'x5' CNC router would be so much work...  ::)

RPM seems to be the most crucial factor which you may have figured already feed/plunge rate makes no difference. The higher RPM the better and as the bit blunts over time the finish deteriorates. @15000rpm there was no raising or dimpling of either side of the panel that could be felt.
 
For reference here is pics of a few spiral cutters. They are both 6mm but the theory is the same for different sizes.


The bottom is a single flute the top is a twin. The single flute is more suited to drilling as it goes to a point but the twin flute and triple flute cutters are more suited to cutting in a sideways direction because of the multiple cutting edges.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 05:55:58 pm by selfie »

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2012, 09:44:04 am »
selfie thanks so much - I've been eagerly awaiting your update.

Yes, speed does seem to make a difference, as does going in perpendicular and not moving around - something of a challenge freehand.  I'm going to keep searching for 1/32" bits like you've shown.  If that fails, I'll fall back to standard drill bits - twisty type is all I can find at this size so far.  I think, if asked, I'd recommend others go the laminate route - much fewer hassles, as it drill clean at low speeds.

unclet - I was wondering if you have any info about the angle of the "air chamber" bottom - even a wild-ass estimate.  Please don't go through any effort if you don't know - I can just wing it.  I was planning a simple rectangular box, so this one has me re-thinking things.  For example, to support the play surface, I'd need varying heights of supporting material, etc.

Thanks.

unclet

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3553
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #77 on: May 15, 2012, 01:48:05 pm »
Quote
fwiw, found this "breakdown" pic to be interesting as well: http://www.valley-dynamoparts.com/docs/AH_2010_Breakdown.pdf
based on this picture the Dynamo table does not look to have the same angled shape "air chamber" as my diagram I provided.   The image you provided show middle wood supports.   Anyway, although I believe my measurements in my image to be correct, I am now wondering if the inside (air chamber and blower) was a quick sketch I did of the inside of my older "Brunswick Blue Air hockey table" I owned prior to upgrading to the Dynamo I currently have.   This does make more sense since I cannot find the keys to my Dynamo.  Perhaps I never had keys to my Dynamo and just ever looked inside of this older Brunswick table only.  Sorry, it has been a very long time.  Anyway, perhaps the angled air chamber sketch I provided will give you an idea to mull over but perhaps you want middle supports like the Dynamo image you provided shows.

Here is my older Brunswick table for kicks:
http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/BrunswickAirHockeyTable/BrunswickMain.html

Quote
I was wondering if you have any info about the angle of the "air chamber" bottom - even a wild-ass estimate
Sorry, no way to get into my Dynamo without me drilling the locks out and/or removing the complete table top.


Quote
I wouldn't have been able to build my Skeeball machine at all if you hadn't taken the time to measure your machine
Thanks for the appreciation, however, keep in mind, I just sold the Skeeball machine, so hopefully all the measurements I have provided in the past will suffice into the future.


Oh yeah, once you have completed your air hockey table, make sure you only ever clean the table top while the air is ON.  This should ensure nothing clogs up the holes when wiping it down.   I was told (by some air hockey table enthusiast a long time ago) to only ever clean my table top with rubbing alcohol while the air blower is ON.  The alcohol is a nice cleaner and will evaporate and not puddle on your table top.   You do not want warping and you want the liquid to be gone somewhat quickly after cleaning.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 01:51:06 pm by unclet »

Unstupid

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 995
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2012, 02:21:28 pm »
The top is a single flute the bottom is a twin. The single flute is more suited to drilling as it goes to a point but the twin flute and triple flute cutters are more suited to cutting in a sideways direction because of the multiple cutting edges.

No... single flute bits don't always start with the tip in the center (like your bit) so drilling with those would be problematic.  Also in your pic the 2 flute is on the top and the single is on the bottom.

ids

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 692
  • Fighter Captured
Re: Air Hockey Build
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2012, 02:58:08 pm »
Unstupid - thanks for the info - I was getting close to making a purchase, but the offset might be too much for me to deal with.  I'm sure with a stable CNC machine, it's not a problem, but freehanding, or even dremel plunge routing, it may be difficult to restrict movement and vibrations.

unclet thanks again for the follow-up.  Please don't bother trying to learn more about the guts of that machine!  Would you think the overall dimensions are otherwise close enough?

I have read/seen something elsewhere regarding the tapered air-chamber.  Since I'm not Stephen Hawking, I don't have the physics background to know the impact, but am considering it anyway.  I know that pic I linked shows level supports, but it also has no room for an air chamber whatsoever, so I was thinking it may be partly faked (to protect design details?).  That, or they are using grooves in the surface rather than an air-chamber.  I've seen a homebrew design something like that - i'd link here but it seems all my links are dead, and the wayback machine doesn't even have it.  The gist is a few grooves running width-wise on the bottom side, say just slightly more than half the thickness of the plywood, and surrounded by a mini air-box (full width, but not much length - just cover the grooves).  On the top, lengthwise grooves every inch, also ~half thickness, covering the entire top.  The bottom grooves feed air across all top grooves, which deliver air to all holes in columns drilled above those grooves (into something like ACP or laminate).  I have a hunch this is how they are made these days.  I am opting for the air-box idea in hopes in will provide equal pressure everywhere.

And thanks for the cleaning info - it matches what I've found on the dynamo site: http://www.valley-dynamoparts.com/docs/AH_Playfield_Care.pdf  The fear of liquids may also be a hint they use the groove style instead of air chamber, and/or they use laminate - which I would guess to be more susceptible to moisture from under the protective surface.  Also, the repair info therein also hints at the groove style.

...now I'm wondering if I'm going about it all wrong...

fwiw, various docs/info: http://www.valley-dynamoparts.com/dynamo_technical_updates.asp

  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31