Williams Defender Cocktail Restoration Project!

[zzaz3]

Hey everybody,

I just got 2 Williams cocktail cabinets yesterday and have decided that I'm going to restore at least one of them.  I have most of the tools and parts I need for this project, but I haven't decided yet which game I should restore.  I already have 2 Make Trax control panel overlays, so that would make things a little easyer.  But I'd also love to have a Robotron or Defender cab! (Although that might be a little more work).

So, before I make a decision, does anybody have any advise on what game I should make?


Also, I'll try and upload some pictures of what I'm working with later tonight.

UPDATE:

Alright, here's what I have to work with:

The first cabinet.


The inside is pretty clean.


The second cabinet.


This one could use some cleaning.


Part of the power supply.  Not sure if it works.


I just got this power supply working a few hours ago.  


One of the control panel overlays.


I think this is a 13' monitor.  I'm not sure how I'm going to mount it in if I choose to do Make Trax.


Another monitor.  It might be 19', but it looks bigger than that.


One of the joysticks.  Not sure what type.  The guy I bought it from said it was the best of the best.



I have some other parts that aren't pictured.  I might upload them if I need help or if anyone wants to see them.

[RayB]

I would say to sell your Make Trax parts and make it one of the good games. Robotron, Defender, Joust...  or a Multi-Williams.

Make Trax is one of those games nobody likes, wants, or will ever pay fair value for. You have been warned!

[saleem]

what kinda games are you into??

i mean if your into shooty type games then put a shooty type game in there.if you want a descision,i would say robotron.

[zzaz3]

Yeah, its a tough decision.  I'd prefer Robotron over any other, but it seems like that would be more expensive and time consuming.  It would be kinda cool to turn one into a defender cabinet because it was originally a defender.  And Make Trax..  Well it would be easyer and cheaper.. but it's not the best game out there.

I'm probably going to make a Robotron.  I'll update this once I research the cost and make a decision.

[opt2not]

I'm probably going to make a Robotron.  I'll update this once I research the cost and make a decision.

You have chosen...wisely.

[zzaz3]

Ok, apparently Defender parts are hard to find, so it's between Make Trax and Robotron.  I'm gonna make a list of all the pros and cons and the cost.

Make Trax:

• Only needs a Make Trax board which is around $50. And a harness witch is $30. (Unless you guys can help me build my own)
• I've already worked with Make Trax machines, so I know more about them.
• This would almost be the easiest way to go, but the monitor I have mounts in Horizontally.  So I might have to rebuild the casing to mount vertically.
• Would have a bad resale value.

Robotron:

• Would cost closer to $100 for a board and I can't find a harness for it.
• Needs another pair of Joysticks for $15 each
• I'd need to buy the control panel overlay, which is $75
• Not sure if power supply will work with this.  And I don't know much about the sound board and ect..
• The monitor and bezel I have would be perfect for Robotron!
• I like Robotron a little bit better.
• Robotron would have a pretty good resale value.

I honestly just hate losing money.  And I have a feeling I might loose money (or eventually break even) on the make trax.  That is, if I ever decide to sell it.  I don't have much money at the moment, so the Make Trax looks nice to me, so this is really tough.  I think I might do the Robotron cabinet 1st and later do the Make Trax or vise versa.

Feedback would be great!  


UPDATE:

Also, does anybody know where/if I could find a replacement to the black sticky material attached to the bezel?

[opt2not]

Sell your Make Trax (or other arcade) parts you have to subsidize the cost of Robotron.
Either that sell your body

[zzaz3]

I thought of that, but idk how soon I'd been about to sell the parts.  There's not a large market for these things.

[RayB]

If you cheap out and go for Make Trax, you will have a cocktail that you won't play, no one else will play and you won't be able to sell. Have you played that game??

[SirPeale]

I actually LIKE Make Trax.  It's pretty challenging.

That said...I'd never MAKE one. 

Why not turn that into a Multi-Williams using a JROK board? Then it'll play five different Williams games.

[zzaz3]

If you cheap out and go for Make Trax, you will have a cocktail that you won't play, no one else will play and you won't be able to sell. Have you played that game??

I used to own a Make Trax upright.  It's not my favorite game, but I still like it.

I actually LIKE Make Trax.  It's pretty challenging.

That said...I'd never MAKE one. 

Why not turn that into a Multi-Williams using a JROK board? Then it'll play five different Williams games.

Dont worry!  There's no way I'm going to MAME one of these cabs.  Apparently Williams didn't make too many cocktail cabs.

That's another way I've been thinking about.  Do you know where I could get control panel overlays for it?

[SirPeale]

No no...not Mame...MAKE. 

Hmmmmm...a cocktail overlay...good question!

[zzaz3]

Oh.  I guess there's not too many Make Trax fans out there.

I actually found a Stargate overlay for sale.  It's the last one left.  I've never played Stargate before, you that would be good?

[RayB]

Robotron reproduction cocktail control panel:
http://www.quarterarcade.com/Game.aspx/6782

[zzaz3]

Robotron reproduction cocktail control panel:
http://www.quarterarcade.com/Game.aspx/6782

Thank you so much!  I've been looking for this everywhere!  

$100 each!  Yikes!  Guess I better start selling some stuff!


I've been looking for a Robotron harness too.  Do you think I can use a Make Trax harness instead?

[opt2not]

Looks to me you're set on making a Make Trax huh?
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=132815&page=2

[SirPeale]

No, I like Make Trax, but not enough to make one.  I'm happy playing it in Mame.

The JROK board is JAMMA.

[zzaz3]

Looks to me you're set on making a Make Trax huh?
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=132815&page=2

lol, your following both post, eh?  I just gotta make a Make Trax.  I don't want the parts to go to waist.  Plus Make Trax isn't that bad.

But don't worry.  I'm going to make another cab too.  Probably a Robotron.  I just haven't decided which to do first.  

Right now I have no money at all.  I buy and sell ipod/iphone and other stuff to make money and I guess I just bought too many at once.  Once I sell the ones I have now, I should get around $350.  I just don't know if thats enough for the Robotron just yet.  I'm actually starting to think I need a new monitor. (either that or a new bezel)  There's open space to where you can see in the cab on the one I chose to use.  I'm thinking that it used to be a moon patrol cab and used a 19' monitor, but idk.  I'll post a picture later.

Once I get some money I'll let you guys know which one I'm doing first.  Right now, I need to study for finals.  So, if anybody knows where to find parts and the prices for these projects it would be much appreciated if you could post them for me  

No, I like Make Trax, but not enough to make one.  I'm happy playing it in Mame.

The JROK board is JAMMA.

Hmm.. Jamma would make things a lot easier.  I think I might look into that some more..

UPDATE:

Ok, real quick, here's some pictures of what I've done and the problem with the monitor.

See the gap?






So far all I've done is move the power supply into the cabinet, along with the other part of the power supply. (Which actually might work)  Next I'm going to switch the coinmechs.  (The one on there is missing a coin flap and the button sticks.)  I would of taken a picture of the monitor lit up, but it makes a really high pitched hum when it's on. (gives me a headache)  Any ideas how to get rid of it?



UPDATE:

Nevermind. Turns out I need a black bezel for the monitor.  The only problem is that it needs to be 13'.  Anyone know where to find one?

Also.  Does ANYBODY have any idea where I can get a Robotron board set from?!?

UPDATE:

I've been working a little on the other power supply I have and I could use some help.  I found some vague diagrams on the internet, but since this is dealing with the power supply I don't want to take any chances.  I basically can't tell what wire go strait to the monitor and what ones go to the power supply box. 

I'll upload a picture tomorrow so you know what I'm talking about.  Until then, I just have one question.  Is the earth ground really necessary?  I feel like everything should run fine without it.  I guess I just want to know what exactly it does before I take the time to do it.

[opt2not]

lol, your following both post, eh?  I just gotta make a Make Trax.  I don't want the parts to go to waist.  Plus Make Trax isn't that bad.

Yeah, i frequent both restoration forums to get my psyched up for my Robotron cabaret.
Saw your post and figured I'd see what you wrote there.

[zzaz3]

lol, your following both post, eh?  I just gotta make a Make Trax.  I don't want the parts to go to waist.  Plus Make Trax isn't that bad.

Yeah, i frequent both restoration forums to get my psyched up for my Robotron cabaret.
Saw your post and figured I'd see what you wrote there.

Yeah, the thread over there seems to be moving a bit slower.  Plus most people there want to see me do a Make Trax.  I've decided just to do both.  I'm going to devote this thread solely to Robotron and the other to Make Trax. 



In the mean time, I'm broke.  So once I get the other power supply working I'll have nothing left to do until I get more money.  I'm hoping to make around $300 by the end of next week, but idk if anyone will want to buy anything from me.  So, just in case anybody wants to contribute to my arcade fun:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=LU3CNNWFJX4C4

I don't care if you just give me $0.50.  That could add up and get me a bezel.  I'm just that broke/desperate.

Also, I'm free tonight.  So I'll be working on the other power supply and might need some help.  If anybody has any tips that would be great! 

[RayB]

Both? THat's interesting! One side Robotron and the other side Make Trax?

[zzaz3]

Both? THat's interesting! One side Robotron and the other side Make Trax?

Woahh!!  No, no!!  While that does sound like a challenge, I'm going to be doing them separately.

I probably forgot to clarify in my original post.     I have TWO different Williams cocktail cabs.  So I can restore both of them.  (In different cabinets.)

[RayB]

I didn't realize that. In that case, yeah, make a Make Trax and a Robotron.

[DrumAnBass]

Very cool; I have a Willams cocktail myself that has been waiting patiently in my garage for almost 2 years for me to restore it... See: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82750.msg863712#msg863712

Thankfully mine came with a monitor bezel; there is a 13" sega bezel on ebay right now. I bet that Happ still has 13" bezels...?

[zzaz3]

Very cool; I have a Willams cocktail myself that has been waiting patiently in my garage for almost 2 years for me to restore it... See: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82750.msg863712#msg863712

Thankfully mine came with a monitor bezel; there is a 13" sega bezel on ebay right now. I bet that Happ still has 13" bezels...?

Wow, glad I'm not the only one trying to restore a Williams cocktail.  Yours looks a lot better than mine does!  Does it power up? 

Also, are you planing on re-doing the laminate on the side of the cab?  Because I'm not sure how to go about doing that and I'm a little scared to try it.


I couldn't find any on Happ, but maybe I just didn't look hard enough.  In the mean time I'm going to be watching that bezel on eBay.  I might be able to make it work with my cab.  Then again, I just realized that Robotron uses a 19' monitor.  So I might have to re-think the bezel.

[DrumAnBass]

Mine used to be a Defender; someone converted it to Moon Patrol at some time. It's doesn't power up; someone did a poor job at wiring up a switching power supply to it at one time and it has some issues...

I bought some cabinet corner protectors that I was thinking of putting on the lower corners to avoid having to re-laminate it, but I might change my mind and go all the way with new laminate.

With the Wico joystick you bought; I would be careful - on mine it doesn't seem like there is enough room for a normal Wico leaf stick in the control panel compartment. I bought a couple of Wico leafs myself thinking I might install a multi-board in it, but at least in mine, I don't think they'll fit because of the height required (even if I route the wood).

[zzaz3]

Mine used to be a Defender; someone converted it to Moon Patrol at some time. It's doesn't power up; someone did a poor job at wiring up a switching power supply to it at one time and it has some issues...

I bought some cabinet corner protectors that I was thinking of putting on the lower corners to avoid having to re-laminate it, but I might change my mind and go all the way with new laminate.

With the Wico joystick you bought; I would be careful - on mine it doesn't seem like there is enough room for a normal Wico leaf stick in the control panel compartment. I bought a couple of Wico leafs myself thinking I might install a multi-board in it, but at least in mine, I don't think they'll fit because of the height required (even if I route the wood).

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure about how to install the joysticks.  The guy that sold it do me said that he used them in his Robotron restoration and they fit just fine.  I can't quite tell how the control panels are suppose to be held in place.  I've seen different cabinets do different things online.  There's not too many good pictures.

Oh well, the guy said I could call him if I needed any help.  I guess I'll ask him about it when I start working on the control panel.

Do you have the dimensions on your monitor?  Or at least the square where the monitor is suppose to go?  It looks similar to mine.

Also, what are you planning on restoring your cabinet to?

UPDATE:

Alright, I just ordered a Multi-Williams board from Jrok.  Can't wait for it to come! 

[zzaz3]

Ok, so since I can't do any wiring until the board gets here, I decided to work on the cabinet itself. 

So today, I sanded and painted it.



I probably should of spend more time sanding... :/




Oh, and after I painted I realized that the pieces from the working coin mech wouldn't fit in the cab I just painted..  I guess I'll have to paint that too.



And last, I bought a piece of plexiglass and painted it.  It actually turned out better than I thought it would.  I'm still not sure if I'm going to re-do the laminate on the side.  I feel like I'm gonna have to re-sand and paint it.  I don't like how it looks. :/


Anyways, maybe after I buy another can of paint I'll do the same for the other cabinet.  (and hopefully I'll do a better job.)

[SirPeale]

It actually looks like you didn't use enough paint.  Let me guess: rattle cans?  What kind, semi-gloss?  Gloss?  The wood will absorb a lot, so for wood I like to use the highest gloss I can, it'll go matte anyway, unless you prime.

[zzaz3]

That's probably it!  I ran out of paint around my 4th coat.  Guess I'll just have to buy some more.  Thanks for the tip.

[DrumAnBass]

Looks like you are off to a great start!

I have had good luck with the smooth foam rollers on other projects so that is what I plan to use to repaint the black on mine.

I don't have a monitor yet; holding off on that until I get it painted & the glass replaced.

I plan on keeping mine a Moon Patrol, as it was one of my favorite games as a kid (longest play time per quarter invested!)

Cool on the Multi Williams board! Will be a great machine when you are done!

EDIT: Sorry just realized that you posted the Defender parts post on the main forum. I have a few additional links that could help you out:

Some pricey Defender joystick shafts:
http://www.videogameparts.com/category.sc?categoryId=83

Robotron Cocktail restoration:
http://www.arcade.chezsuys.com/RoboCocktail.html

[zzaz3]

Looks like you are off to a great start!

I have had good luck with the smooth foam rollers on other projects so that is what I plan to use to repaint the black on mine.

I don't have a monitor yet; holding off on that until I get it painted & the glass replaced.

I plan on keeping mine a Moon Patrol, as it was one of my favorite games as a kid (longest play time per quarter invested!)

Cool on the Multi Williams board! Will be a great machine when you are done!

EDIT: Sorry just realized that you posted the Defender parts post on the main forum. I have a few additional links that could help you out:

Some pricey Defender joystick shafts:
http://www.videogameparts.com/category.sc?categoryId=83

Robotron Cocktail restoration:
http://www.arcade.chezsuys.com/RoboCocktail.html

Oh cool.  I can't wait to see you restore your moon patrol.  When you do let me know, because I have a bunch of links with information on these cabinets.  Plus, I'll probably have some parts leftover in case you might need some. 

Thanks for the links, the Robotron one will be great for reference.  But right now I'm trying to convince a local to sell me his defender control panels, so hopefully I wont have to buy anything from that site.  Those shafts are out of my budget. 


Also, in case nobody has noticed, I've decided to make a Defender cabinet and a Robotron cabinet.  Unfortunately I can't build a Make Trax without a 13' vertical monitor mount.  But Defender is a great game!  It's just a little tougher to build, a little tougher to play, and a lot more expensive. 

Oh, and I have some good news.  I just found out that one of my cabinet's has a larger control panel.  So I'll be able to fit the original joysticks in for Robotron. 

In the mean time I've got to finish painted both cabs, clean the metal on both cabs, paint another glass panel for the Robotron cab, wait for parts to be delivered and search for parts on the web.

[zzaz3]

Alright, Today I took the cabinet out side and painted it again.  It looks great!    

I also got a bezel in the mail too.  It's starting to look nice.

The Bezel:


Fresh coat of paint!    I also cleaned some of the paint that was already on the metal base with some acetone.  But it seems like theres something else there, maybe rust?  I'm not sure how to get it off.


It's a pretty nice improvement, don't ya think?

[DrumAnBass]

Lookin' gooood!

[m_mcgover]

Thank you so much!  I've been looking for this everywhere!  

$100 each!  Yikes!  Guess I better start selling some stuff!


I've been looking for a Robotron harness too.  Do you think I can use a Make Trax harness instead?

That is $100 for both, not for a single.

As for a harness, you can PM Dokert on klov forums (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/member.php?u=34681, he might make you one.  He makes Williams upright harnesses.

Also, I have a Robotron cocktail.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck with the restoration!  It is a great game.  I love the cocktail even though it is probably a bit more challenging to play than the upright.

[zzaz3]

Thank you so much!  I've been looking for this everywhere! 

$100 each!  Yikes!  Guess I better start selling some stuff!


I've been looking for a Robotron harness too.  Do you think I can use a Make Trax harness instead?

That is $100 for both, not for a single.

As for a harness, you can PM Dokert on klov forums (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/member.php?u=34681, he might make you one.  He makes Williams upright harnesses.

Also, I have a Robotron cocktail.  Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck with the restoration!  It is a great game.  I love the cocktail even though it is probably a bit more challenging to play than the upright.

Wow, I wish I knew that sooner.  I did the defender project first because I thought it was cheaper.  That makes a big difference now. 

Oh well, thanks for letting me know.  If it weren't for you, I would of ended up waisting an extra $100 on parts I didn't need. 

Also, thanks for the link!  I'll be sure to asked him about a harness, if I ever find a Robotron board. Darn things are so hard to find! 

You'll probably be hearing from me a lot when I get started on the Robotron.  I'm gonna have a lot of work to do...

[zzaz3]

Alright, so I don't have much of an update but..

I was lucky enough to find a guy online who would sell me his Defender Control Panels.  They cost me $173 shipped.  Idk if that was a good deal or not, but it'll sure save me some time.  They're both in great condition, the only bad thing is one of them is missing a joystick.  But thanks to Paladin that wont be a problem!    I'll post pictures of it when i arrives. 

[RayB]

Ah, the world of restoration. If you dig enough, you'll find plenty of people able to help. The only down side is cost.

[zzaz3]

Ok, I got jrok's multi-williams board in the mail today along with the original defender harness I ordered.  It's not quite what I expected.  The harness doesn't match anything in my cab.  Idk what it's suppose to go to.  Do I need some other kind of wire or something?  I know for a fact none of the plugs coming from the JAMMA harness will fit anywhere in my cab.

Anybody know what I need to do?!?

The harness:





The parts it's suppose to connect to:




The board:

[SirPeale]

You don't have an original harness there, you have a JAMMA to Williams wiring adapter, specific to The JROK board.  Since you're wiring from scratch, you should have just bought a standard JAMMA harness and wired from that.  Unless you have a Williams harness, what you've got is...well, a bunch of wire.  Sorry man.