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The Whole Toyota Debacle.......Your Thoughts.
danny_galaga:
--- Quote from: Fordman on March 04, 2010, 04:06:38 am ---Hello All,
Several pundits on tv have questioned why she just didnt throw it into neutral, park or reverse.
I think that wouldnt have helped anyway. The transmissions are programmed to not go into a reverse or park when at speeds above 3mph. this is done to save the hardware within the gearbox. The valve body control module wouldnt let it go into the neutral or park mode as programmed - designed. But it should have been allowed to go into neutral and then while in neutral, the rpm's of the engine should rev down to 'idle' rpm's. The error is the not allowing the transmission to go into neutral. I think Toyota's issue is a software issue and not a hardware one. This little 1" x 1" piece of metal being added to the pedal I think is a "I can see the fix, so I know they fixed it" kinda feel good fix for people. I work with engineers all the time and they will tell you alot of issues are now electronics and the software within them and no so much a mecanical part.
--- End quote ---
This sort of issue has been cropping up for the last 20 years in aircraft, alarmingly. That is to say, there is a huge advantage to automating more and more processes. But sometimes there will be a scenario that no one had envisaged. A scenario where if the process was totally manual, the pilot could make a command decision and use his imagination. Probably one of the first instances where an automated system couldn't cope with an unusual variable was one of the Apollo missions. While on the ground, there was a small fire in the capsule. Most likely completely survivable, except that as the fire burned, it of course was depleting oxygen. The oxygen sensor detected the drop in levels and increased the level. The result was disaster. More famously, Airbus have had some freaky incidences with fly by wire tech because the situation while unusual was quite clear to a human, but not to the computer.
The new Toyota CEO came out about these probs before the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- really started to hit the fan, which was interesting. (edit: maybe not now i think about it. In Australia, it seemed the case because we didn't have as many sensational incidents as in the US. Maybe those models didn't come here or something)
Fordman, what you say about being able to go into neutral, is that what they are supposed to do, or is this your thoughts? Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do. Very easy to program for too.
I'll stick to my 39 year old VW for now. The only thing electronic in it is the stereo, and that's broken ;D
danny_galaga:
--- Quote from: Silas (son of Silas) on March 04, 2010, 09:32:50 am ---
--- Quote from: ark_ader on March 04, 2010, 07:55:38 am ---I support American products and I buy Chevy. :applaud:
--- End quote ---
Well, I guess you're an American living in America so you get 'proper' Chevy's?
Have you seen the steaming pile of Daewoo crap that gets badged and flogged as Chevy in the UK?
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Hey, i used to own a Daewoo Matiz, and it was an awesome little car! Seemed like it was only running on 3 cylinders though ;D
danny_galaga:
--- Quote from: northerngames on March 10, 2010, 04:16:10 am ---
it would also be nice to find out where the actual materials themselve's come from to start each and should be accounted for also like the rubber metal oil grease piant mold plastic wire etc. and perhaps the machine's that make each of them parts too.
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Most of the iron, and coal to smelt it into steel, probably comes from here. Thats for any car in the world. SO for us Aussies, we don't care WHAT car you buy, we still export the same amount :)
Cakemeister:
One thing is for certain. The lawyers will get paid.
Fordman:
I agree, the lawyers will get 80% of any settlement! :angry:
As for the question for the transmission not going into neutral, they should go into neutral by design, whether it be software or manually placed into neutral. The neutral position is considered the total 'dis-engagement' point. Automatic transmissions have an auto clutch system that when placed into neutral ,the clutch should totally disengage the gear sets. A manual trans is controlled by the driver at all times, the auto trans is software controlled by the valve body. If the software is bad, it wont let the clutch disengage, also it could have been programmed once it gets to a certain gear ratio - rpm - it could bump up the speed, that is where it could be telling the fuel intake that it needs a little more kick to shift again or into overdrive.
A little disclaimer here: I have worked for many years with many types of transmissions. Im no expert on them all. I have worked with 3 speeds, CVT's, 4 speeds with or without overdrives, 5 speed truck trans, 6 speen FWD - AWD trans and many many internal components. I was a 'lab-tech' for 5 years. I placed randomly chosen trans from the assembly line onto test stands in a simulated drive machine. The drive machine basically 'drove' the trans in many different driving situations, from stop to 60mph to stop within 45 seconds to a simulated 2500 mile drive in a 24 hours period at various mph to whole time on the test stand. I'm not a repairman, but a somewhat knowledgable factory worker.
Disclaimer 2: The Ford Escape Hybrid drive system is a Toyota engine/trans/battery pack. The Escape hybrid drive system was so similarly designed, For went ahead and decided to pay toyota for their technology rather than produce it. Ford was worried about lawsuits from toyota.
Fordman
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