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Author Topic: Berzerk pin?  (Read 6121 times)

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RayB

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Berzerk pin?
« on: February 09, 2010, 03:44:20 pm »
Would a pin based on Berzerk be a stupid idea?
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shardian

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 03:59:52 pm »
Would a pin based on Berzerk be a stupid idea?

A custom one? Nope. Actually, there are plenty of early 80's pins with existing sound boards that would be PERFECT for Berzerk.

ChadTower

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 04:20:23 pm »

Hrm... we all know there is a Space Invaders but really it could be any alien theme and not change.  There is stuff like Spy Hunter so the same applies.  I bet there is some mediocre robot theme early 80s game with art that could be redone, an mp3 player added in, and basically made into a Berzerk.

I'd be down for that.  :)

Xiaou2

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 05:59:25 pm »
Yes.  Its a bad idea.

 Berzerk has 5 elements.

 1) A maze of walls
 2) Robots
 3) A human? (main character)
 4) A Giant bouncing Smile face.
 5) Laser Blasts

 Berzerk has nothing to do with Pinball, and has almost nothing to use
to create any gameplay & theme from.

 Its not even a very good arcade game.

 I really hope you were being sarcastic.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 08:14:25 pm »

Sadly, Fathom also comes to mind for the drop targets.  Doubt anyone will be converting any of those, though.

You know, Genesis might be a good candidate, actually.  Bigass robot right in the middle of the playfield.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2010, 09:28:37 pm »


My Spy Hunter was going to be a sandpaper candidate, but I actually ended up liking the game, etc etc.





Are you serious? That thing sucks more than my shop-vac! :lame:
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 01:48:26 am »
No no, screw custom. I thought since Stern's hitting hard times and having to scale back somewhat, why not save themselves from a pricey license fee and put out a game using their own IP, one that would appeal to retro arcade gamers and feature those SWEEET words "Intruder Alert! Stop the Humanoid!"
 :D
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 03:17:19 pm by RayB »
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2010, 09:25:20 am »
No no, screw custom. I thought since Stern's hitting hard times and having to scale back somewhat, why not save themselves from a pricey license fee and put out a game using their own IP, one that would appeal to retro arcade gamers and feature those SWEEET words "In truder Alert! Stop the Humanoid!"
 :D

 :applaud:

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2010, 09:27:53 am »

I'm not sure that this Stern actually owns the IP of that Stern... there have been so many exchanges of IP over the years in that industry I bet stuff like Berzerk is owned by some dormant entity someplace.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 03:18:45 pm »
Story I heard on the Chicago Coin from a Stern Pinball employee was "Gary Stern's ex-wife owns all that..... I think" back when I was contemplating redoing the artwork for Whiz Kids, but that stuff has to be borderline public domain by now.
I heard the same thing, but when I emailed them a couple years ago about it, the reply was that yes, Gary Stern still owns the rights.  :dunno
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2010, 03:33:38 pm »


Its not even a very good arcade game.



uhhuhhahuhhahhuuahAhAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAHAHAAAAH !

I hope YOU were being sarcastic. :D


I'd love a Berzerk Pin. I actually launched the idea earlier and somewhere else IIRC. But today's people would simply not know what it is all about....to sell some units, they will have to keep doing mainstream stuff...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 03:35:39 pm by Level42 »

Xiaou2

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2010, 04:58:11 pm »
Not at all.  Robotron is where its at... and as much as I love that game,
I really dont think Id want to make a Pin theme of it.

Doesnt matter much anyways.  Almost none of their games are worth
playing... let alone dropping $4000 on.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2010, 05:36:24 pm »
We get it. You hate Stern.
NO MORE!!

Xiaou2

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 09:44:37 pm »

 I dont like bad ideas, bad designs, poor level of quality and half hearted efforts.

 There are many other pins I dont care for.  It just happens that at least they
actually Tried to make good pins, and tried to innovate.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 09:58:23 pm »
Why not just make one in future pinball or visual pinball?
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

Jeff AMN

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 01:20:17 pm »

 I dont like bad ideas, bad designs, poor level of quality and half hearted efforts.

 There are many other pins I dont care for.  It just happens that at least they
actually Tried to make good pins, and tried to innovate.


If you can't see innovation and quality in Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, or Spider-Man, you're intentionally blind to it.
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2010, 01:31:35 pm »
Take Family Guy for an example. I may not be a huge fan of it, but the mere fact that Gary Stern signed off on letting Lawlor do that outrageous Stewie pinball shows me that he IS still in the game for the love of the pinball. That took stones to approve - it was expensive and highly custom.

Stern's aren't perfect, but they catch a whole lot more flack than they deserve.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2010, 04:45:42 pm »
 Do you really know what that Mini Pin on FG costs?   Theres no way it was
that expensive.  There is 2 mini flippers, and thats about it.  In fact, its
so simplistic, that its not even that fun to play it.

 Did you know that one of the designers wanted to make a "Basement"
in one of their games, and Stern said no.  There are far more NOs due
to being greedy / stingy than there are to "Gos".  BTW - A Basement
would cost far more than that mini-pinball.  (And I suspect that the mini
pinball probably was designed differently till Stern said NO: Change it)

 
Quote
If you can't see innovation and quality in Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, or Spider-Man, you're intentionally blind to it.

 Get real man.   Tell me WHERE the innovation is in those games.

 Let me give examples of Innovation, so you know what Innovation IS:

1) Change from LED style display to Dot-Matrix animated displays.

2) Change from tone Bells to synthesized sounds.

3) Change from low quality sound. to high Quality DCS.

4) Tilting mini playfield - Indiana Jones Williams

5) Sub-Playfeild - Haunted House

(Sterns use sound thats far Inferior to DCS, even tho DCS is like
20 yrs old now.  Nice Innovation ehh?!  Today, pc makers ship sound
chips that have 7.1 surround sound built into the MB! And they are Cheap
as hell.  What does that say about Sterns choice to use the Worst
quality Sound possible?)

 The best game they have is LOTR, and it has major gamplay issues.  Simpsons doesnt play well either. Spiderman is boring as hell... and has
no innovations.

 
- Stern only lightly clears their playfeilds, and no Mylar.  If people actually
played them consistently, and Ops playfeild would be destroyed in a few
years with irreversible damages.

- Stern uses Inferior Inkjet artworks, rather than Screen printing.

- Stern does not hire Real artists. Photoshoppers do their "art"?!

 The list could go on and on.

 Stern is Not an innovator.  Stern is a guy who is trying to push out
inferior K-Mart level machines selling for high dollar prices. Anyone should
be able to see this easily... unless they are completely Deaf & Blind.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:49:34 pm by Xiaou2 »

shardian

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 04:58:25 pm »
There is simply no debating with some folk...

For the record, I had a Pirates of the Caribbean and the audio quality was excellent.

Here is some fodder for you Mr. William's whore.
How can you justify a company that used a frikkin Data East Start Button in lieu of a pinball plunger on many of their top end mid 90's pinballs? (Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness, Monster Bash, etc). Talk about low quality...

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 05:06:01 pm »
Xiaou2 is simply unreasonable. Nothing you ever say to him will ever get through.

I love, LOVE, my Bally/Williams games, but I've yet to ever see one offer any of the amount of depth that either Simpsons Pinball Party or Lord of the Rings offers.
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 07:14:01 pm »
Pirates is just as Muffled sounding as all their other games.  Listen to Williams
IJ, and compare.  There is no comparison. 

 Unless you have Really bad hearing, you would cringe at the difference.
Test - See if you can notice the difference between a mame game ran at 44khz, and
22 khz.  If you cant, then your speakers are bad - and or your ears suck.

Quote
"How can you justify a company that used a frikkin Data East Start Button in lieu of a pinball plunger"

 I prefer plungers. However, there are good reasons why they did this:

1) MM has no Skill shot. It goes up to the top of the field, and can drain down one
of two switch rails.  You dont need to bounce the ball into them, or skillfully get the ball
into one or the other.  You merely have to press the flippers to alternate the
"lit" target switch.

2) Because of certain pins like this, there is no need for a Plunger.  If someone pulled
too lightly, it would result in more play time - creating less revenues.  (Most especially
with children)

3) Also, it would place a part which is mechanical, and thus prone to failure.  Springs
eventually need to be replaced.  Plungers cleaned.  Cost increased in parts and build
times.

 Attack from Mars  - Sucks.  &  so does Revenge from Mars.

 Monster bash is same as MM,  and, they are Superior to Anything Stern has
or will Ever make.

Quote
"but I've yet to ever see one offer any of the amount of depth that either Simpsons Pinball Party or Lord of the Rings offers."

 So what you are saying, is that the only innovation is the complex Rule set.
Big fricken deal.

 If there were any other Pinball companies round today, they would have also
adapted pins for deeper rules for the home environments.

 You just cant cut all those corners, on 20+ yr old technology, update the rules,
and expect to keep pinball alive.

 If you like hamburg over steak, that is all you Jeff.
Personally, Id never praise a hamburger joint... especially when they are selling
their hamburgers for the price of a top end steak.


RayB

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 07:48:09 pm »
Why not just make one in future pinball or visual pinball?
Good idea  :cheers:

@Xiau2: Don't defend the button as ball launcher, just for the sake of defending it because he brought it up. Parts wear aside, a button takes away the entire "skill shot" start to the ball. That's a pretty fundamental gameplay feature.
NO MORE!!

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2010, 09:50:04 pm »
Wow...I bet Xiaou doesn't even realize how badly he contradicts his whole argument with that 'defense'. Hilarious.

BTW, I had a PotC side by side with a Lethal Weapon 3 and a Whodunnit (WPC95 - the 'creme de la creme' of Williams) I put the sound quality of Pirates up against my whodunnit any day. It was crystal clear. The match sequence shows off the sound in that system perfectly.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2010, 02:45:37 am »


The ABSOLUTE worst, though, is the Stern manual plungers that serve no purpose.  I'm looking at you NASCAR and WPT. 




Let's not forget IJ4, TDK, and 24
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2010, 11:41:27 pm »
Quote
As far as sound, I think Data East nailed it in the 80s.  Robocop sounds amazing in person.

 Most 80s games used Synthesizers instead of low quality recordings. Good Synths are almost always
superior to anything else.

Quote
It was crystal clear.

 Crystal as In Crystal Mudd?   Compare DVD captures on a good sound system, and they
will make your Stern sound like a 30 yrs old 8track played on partially blown speakers.

 Of course, LOTR is 5x as bad.

 I suspect that in addition to average !MONO! sound boards,  they are using very low quality
recorded samples, squeezed into the smallest amount of ram possible, to save a mere $10.

 Remember kids, we are are in year 2010.  Mono Sound?  Poor sound quality?  Lets get real here.
Relatively, Stern is trying to sell 8 track players to people who have DVD players, and
8 speaker surround sound systems, complex pc & console games... (and who are about to get
true Stereoscopic 3D visuals in the home).

 This level of incompetence, cant last much longer.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 11:44:29 pm by Xiaou2 »

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2010, 11:42:10 pm »
Simpsons Pinball Party is considered one of the best pinballs ever made. I've been playing a lot of Visual Pinball and among Scarred Stiff and others Simpsons Pinball Party is one of my top favourites.
I used to had Tales from the Crypt very high in consideration but i lost all my interest in it due to the table design, horrible IMO.

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2010, 01:31:29 am »
Quote
Simpsons Pinball Party is considered one of the best pinballs ever made.

 By who?  Stern?  Stern butt kissers?   Pinball NoObs?  Get real.

 TSPP is not even close to the best pin ever made.   I could probably make a list a full page
long and TSPP wouldnt even be on it.

 Though, I have to admit, If was told I could have either one for free.. Id choose
TSPP over Crypt.   That game is wretched.

 Also, VP is ok... but its very different from the real experience.  Many pins just do not play,look,
and feel, anything like what they are supposed to be like.   Its like ordering a pricey steak,
and getting a cold plate of beans instead.


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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2010, 02:36:43 am »
X...

Do you realize that you come off as quite an incredible dick?  Seriously.  I mean,  I can be anal... a pain in the ass... hell,  annoying at times... you,  my god man,  you just come off as such a dick.  Is this something you STRIVE to do or does it just come natural?

I have to wonder... do you have friends?

I mean ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- dude... lighten up.  IT'S ---smurfin---' PINBALL,  MAN....

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2010, 11:20:42 am »
Xiaou2 is a robot. He has absolutely no concept of personal opinion. He's been pre-programmed to like a handful of games and completely hate the rest. There's a list his overlords uploaded to his memory banks. When approaching a pinball machine the following logic process takes place in his brain.

1. If game is on [master list] proceed to 2. If game is not found on [master list], continue to 4.
2. Play game and sing its praises no matter what perceived drawbacks or issues the game might have. Continue to 3.
3. Access [bull**** reasons list]. Use list to explain why game is better than any game not found on [master list]. Spread message on BYOAC. Regardless of BYOAC feedback, continue to 7.
4. Do not play game, even if free play is enabled. Run to BYOAC and tell anybody who likes the game that they are incredibly wrong. Access [master list] for random examples of superior games. Continue to 5.
5. If negative reaction is received, continue to 6.
6. Access [even more bull**** reasons list]. Use list to explain why you are correct to put down game not found on [master list]. Ignore all replies unless to only more adamantly restate your point and to draw from [even more bull**** reasons list] once more. End Program.
7. Disappear from pinball forum for 3 weeks. Return only if game not found on [master list] is discussed. Return to 6.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 11:25:50 am by Jeff AMN »
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2010, 11:24:55 am »
Maybe the death train guys got him and inserted a chip in his noggin?
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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2010, 10:36:52 pm »

 lol @ Jeff
Quote
1. If game is on [master list] proceed to 2. If game is not found on [master list], continue to 4.

 Wrong.  I regularly attend pinball shows, and play them all.   I pay to play interesting
games on location.  Ive put a few quarters in some Sterns, and Ive felt robbed
nearly every time.

Quote
2. Play game and sing its praises no matter what perceived drawbacks or issues the game might have. Continue to 3.

 I am critical on all games functionality.   There is always a way to improve a game.
Its doubtful any game could be labeled as Perfect.

Quote
4. Do not play game, even if free play is enabled. Run to BYOAC and tell anybody who likes the game that they are incredibly wrong. Access [master list] for random examples of superior games. Continue to 5.

 As said, I play what available... and so far, Ive played almost all of the new gens.
In fact, I am friends with local collectors which own many of the titles, so can play
them for free.

Quote
7. Disappear from pinball forum for 3 weeks. Return only if game not found on [master list] is discussed. Return to 6.

 lol.  Im sorry if I disspointed you by not responding immediately.   :P
 

urbecrisch

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2010, 11:25:39 am »
Xiaou2, are you really the creator of this?


Q*Bert_OP

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2010, 01:26:17 pm »
Xiaou2, are you really the creator of this?



That's what happens when a steam roller gets in contact with arcade games  :lol
WTB: The Grid by Midway (2001), looking for 2 or more complete games, and large marquee

Xiaou2

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2010, 02:03:38 pm »

 Im not sure why people think I find my old proto's offensive.   If that was
the case, I would have long since taken my old site down which hosts
the images for all to see.

 In fact, it was the most innovative solution for its time.  Being able to
play most all classics without compromises in their controls. And it
contained custom made SuperHangon w/ twist throttle & grip brakes,
custom Starwars yoke, custom trigger sticks, and the first custom
Sinistar controller that actually worked well for mame. (due to its
specialized rubber spring system)

 May not have looked so hot, but looks were secondary to gameplay,
comfort, zero swap time, and space savings.

 Contrary to belief, no controls were pressing against you when you
stood close to it.  The panels were arranged in such a way as to eliminate
that.

 A few other proud moments, were success in learning to work with
heavy gauge metal  (cutting holes in 3mm pipe isnt easy).   Accurate
hex shape.  Custom disc brake system that actually worked - via modificed
vise clamp.  Insane wireing diagram - in order to be able to switch
between everything without issue.  (before many encoders were available)
And even made custom 'slide-to-adjust' optical brackets.  Almost forgot,
I made a dual bearing spinner too. .. which had a cast discs of tron
knob, which I also made.


urbecrisch

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2010, 07:00:07 pm »
I'm just curious cause I saw it on Mame's Wall of Shame website and never knew who made it.  May have been ahead of it's time back in the day but like Arnold said, "you are one ugly mother f***er!" At least you're not trying to hide it. Have another Cab built since then so we can see your progression?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 12:15:05 pm by urbecrisch »

Xiaou2

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Re: Berzerk pin?
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2010, 04:44:03 am »
Wall of Shame  LOL.   Thats priceless.

  You gota luv the critics.  Most of those people couldnt build a working Starwars
yoke to save their lives, yet I get the wall of shame.  lol

 As for a new cab:

   I had lost my job for an extended period, so I was unable to complete my
original design.  Then... my ideas about what I wanted changed...

 I found out the joys of leaf buttons and joysticks, via Robotron and Asteroids
Deluxe.  I also liked the idea of sitting down instead of standing up... most
especially for Driving games.

 I have two new designs Ive thought about building. One is a portable control panel
which features flip-up trackballs as well as having 4 playable sides.

 The other idea, is a huge enclosed environment, which would have a horizontally
rotating system of panels... similar to Unclets design, but more complex, and more
features.

 Money, time, energy...  have caused me to put off on projects for a while.
Will resume one day...